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#1
02-11-2005, 04:07 PM
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Muslim Honor Killings
I went to the library today I saw a rather disturbing book called: Guarding the Secrets by Ellen Harris, copyright 1995. The book is a true story of a Palestinian family living in the United States. The father of the family, Zein Isa, is a suspected terrorist so the FBI bugs his home. What the FBI did not expect was that their electronic bugs would record the murder of their 16 year old daughter (Isa) for being disrespectful.
After a loud argument Zein Isa tells his daughter, "Listen my dear daughter, tonight you are going to die." For the next 8 minutes Isa screaming is heard as her 200lb mother holds her down and her father repeatingly stabs her. At one point Isa begs her mother Maria to help her, and her mother tells her to "Shut up!". The father then screams, "Die! Die Quickly!, Die Quickly!" His wife Maria tells her husband to place the butcher knife underneath her daughter's writhing body. Then Zein is heard saying, "Clean her bottom. Clean her bottom!" as Isa bowels involuntarly discharge. Isa death cry is heard "AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH" and Isa become silent. Her father then says, "Quiet little one! Die, my daughter, die!" Then Maria makes a 911 call saying that someone has died in their home. Zein and Maria falsely claim that Isa attacked them with a knife and they killed her in self-defense. They are totally unaware that their entire murder was recorded by the FBI... During the murder trial two men of the jury openly wept as the FBI tapes were being played... One of Isa's sisters calmly ate a candy bar as the tapes were being played... If this was just one isolated incident, you could overlook this as just one murder by a deranged family but it is not. It is a sick and demented culture that advocates such "honor killings". Government officials received hundreds of letters at the "injustice" given to Zein and Maria Isa... It are stories like these which have forged my opinions on the muslim culture... 
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#3
02-11-2005, 08:51 PM
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Re: Honor Killings
Interesting story.
[ QUOTE ] What the FBI did not expect was that their electronic bugs would record the murder of their [sic] 16 year old daughter for being disrespectful. [/ QUOTE ] What was she "disrespectful" about exactly? [ QUOTE ] It [is] stories like these which have forged my opinions on the muslim culture. [/ QUOTE ] It is movies like the Godfather which have forged my opinions on the italian culture. What's wrong with this picture?
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#4
02-11-2005, 09:02 PM
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Re: Muslim Honor Killings
[ QUOTE ]
It [is] stories like these which have forged my opinions on the muslim culture. --------------------------------------------------------------- It is movies like the Godfather which have forged my opinions on the italian culture. What's wrong with this picture? [/ QUOTE ] Nothing, Cyrus, unless those happen to be the only things which have forged your opinions on those two cultures. You have successfully identified two specific and significant problems in two cultures, congratulations on your excellent detective work.
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#5
02-11-2005, 09:16 PM
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How is the mafia a \"significant problem\" in \"Italian culture?\" n/m
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#6
02-11-2005, 09:47 PM
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Re: How is the mafia a \"significant problem\" in \"Italian culture?\" n/m
Organized crime is an especially significant problem in Russia, Columbia, and Italy. The Italian-American Mafia has long been a problem in the U.S. too, though to a less pervasive extent, especially in recent decades (thanks largely to strenous efforts by law enforcement, and to newer laws such as RICO).
In Italy, and especially Sicily, over the last few decades there have been numerous anti-Mafia judges and prosecutors gunned down in cold blood. At any rate, Chris, you must admit it's more of an Italian problem than a Swedish problem...eh? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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#7
02-12-2005, 12:26 AM
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Why can\'t you answer the question?
[ QUOTE ]
The Italian-American Mafia has long been a problem in the U.S. too... [/ QUOTE ] That's not what you said. You said the mafia is a problem not merely in those places where it exists (almost self-evident) but that it is a "significant problem" "in" Italian culture. How do you explain to Italians that their culture is significantly flawed or problematic because of the mafia?
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#8
02-12-2005, 06:44 AM
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Re: How is the mafia a \"significant problem\" in \"Italian culture?\" n/m
[ QUOTE ]
Organized crime is an especially significant problem in Russia, Columbia, and Italy. [/ QUOTE ] Actually China holds the record here. Their TRIAD Organization has over 100K members world wide. Read this in a guiness world records.
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#9
02-11-2005, 09:22 PM
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Re: Honor Killings
"What was she "disrespectful" about exactly?"
****************************** Having a part time job and a boyfriend. She also insisted on playing school sports, which displeased her father. "It is movies like the Godfather which have forged my opinions on the italian culture. ***************************** I mention a true story you mention a fictional story. Honor killings are condoned in most muslim societies. Are you going to deny this? In that same book, the last chapter the author discusses how many Palestinian women were banding together to protest these honor killings. Based on these women banding together can we not logically conclude honor killings are numerous? as opposed to being a rare occurences? In the last few weeks, I have read about a honor killing that occurred in a Kurd family in the UK. In middle eastern countries, honor killings do not get press coverage, are not punished, and are more numerous than in western societies which punish such offenders ... "What's wrong with this picture?" ********************************* Well...I use real life examples to illustrate unsavory aspects of muslim culture. You cite fictional movies written by Mario Puzo to attack my conclusions. If this honor killing was just one isolated incident ...THEN... you would have a point. But it is not an isolated incident. The facts are that Honor killings are part of accepted muslim culture. And I find it barbaric...
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#10
02-11-2005, 09:53 PM
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Round Due
[ QUOTE ]
I use real life examples to illustrate unsavory aspects of muslim culture. You cite fictional movies written by Mario Puzo. [/ QUOTE ] OK, I'll also use "real-life examples" : It is stories like gruesome gangland killings which have forged my opinion on the italian culture. How's that? Now we have equally strong and correct opinions on both towelheads and dagos! [ QUOTE ] If this honor killing was just one isolated incident ...THEN... you would have a point. But it is not an isolated incident. [/ QUOTE ] Those eyetalian grease jobs are all over each other with guns and knives, I swear to god, every day and night. Enough to fill up the whole six o-clock news. No isolated nuthin' about 'em! And it is fictional movies like the Godfather which have alerted me to the reality of italian culture.
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