Playing correctly.

lorinda · #1 02-10-2005, 04:07 PM

Too tired to make this interesting but:

Don't make your play based on what your opponent should do, make your play based upon what they will do.

Lori

rybones · #2 02-10-2005, 04:24 PM

This is a great thought! However, I still don't know what to do. Here is an example from the $10+1 level

1st hand of tourney. You have Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] in the CO. There are a bunch of limpers to you. You raise to t120 and have two callers.

The Flop is Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 10 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].

It is checked to you. You bet the pot (roughly t400) and get one caller.

The turn is 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].

villian checks. Everything about this hand says the villian has the flush or straight draw. If you bet anything you are really all in and you know the villian will call (and rightly so, his odds would just about be right now). My logic says "da, push and get all his chips." My heart says "you know he will call and get his flush, just check it and be happy with the pot as it is."

does anyone else hate this scene.

Ryan

willie24 · #3 02-10-2005, 04:39 PM

my apologies, but you may be hopeless.

good luck in your future endeavors!

Mez · #4 02-10-2005, 04:44 PM

yeah I hate holding the nuts and my opponent's best hand has 9 outs...wait 7 outs since you hold a Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and the 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] gives you the boat. Wait if I he had J9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] he could have more outs, or he could make quads with another 10...better just fold.

Mr_J · #5 02-10-2005, 04:55 PM

This is a clear push. Best hands he can have is KcJc or Jc9c where he'd have odds to call your oush on turn. Villain is breakeven at best w/ AK clubs, AJ clubs. As far as I can tell there are no other cards where villain has odds to call (and AK/AJ clubs are marginal at best).

BTW, this post is not to you Mez, it just ended up under your post.

pastabatman · #6 02-10-2005, 04:44 PM

I'm a noob, but here's my thoughts. Besides a draw, he could be slow-playing AA, KK , thinking you only hit TP. Or even a lower PP, thinking you were on a steal. Theory of Poker says, if you think you now have the best hand, never give a free card, even if by raising he still has correct odds to call.

I say push.

Pasta

rybones · #7 02-10-2005, 06:26 PM

This is my favorite reply! nothing about the fictional hand I created should tell you he is slow playing A,A or K,K. I don't care if this is a 10 or 200 sng. you might limp with A,A but you try to get all your chips in the middle pre-flop when you get action like the Queens gave. Additionally Aces or Kings might check raise this flop but I doubt it as they are worried about the same draws as I described.

Alas, just my thoughts.

Ryan

pastabatman · #8 02-10-2005, 07:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
This is my favorite reply! nothing about the fictional hand I created should tell you he is slow playing A,A or K,K.

[/ QUOTE ]
Ok, guess I'm the dunce. Mind you, I didn't say this was the most likely holding. But I've seen such hands played that way, in my admittedly short SNG experience. If he's in love with his AA, he could very well think he's leading you down the path to ruin by slow-playing until you stop spewing chips.

[ QUOTE ]
The best part is that people read this that I would not push with trip Queens.

[/ QUOTE ]

Alas, what fools we are. But you said at the beginning of your post:[ QUOTE ]
However, I still don't know what to do.

[/ QUOTE ]

spentrent · #9 02-10-2005, 04:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
villian checks. Everything about this hand says the villian has the flush or straight draw. If you bet anything you are really all in and you know the villian will call (and rightly so, his odds would just about be right now). My logic says "da, push and get all his chips." My heart says "you know he will call and get his flush, just check it and be happy with the pot as it is."

[/ QUOTE ]

Aww, come on. Your choices:

1) BET. He calls, "correctly," with a 25% chance of winning... IF your read is right. Or he folds thinking "do I want to lose on a correct play that leaves me down a buy-in 3 out of 4 times?"

2) CHECK. He... well... has been laid INFINITE POT ODDS and can win with ANYTHING. He fills up, hits two pair, hits the flush, or hits the straight on the river and you decide to avoid QQ like the plague from now on.

Come on now, if you're gonna worry about this, just fold and click "yes, I'm sure."

ericlambi · #10 02-10-2005, 04:59 PM

I love it. If he calls all his chips on a draw, then you should be happy. This is how you make money at poker (presuming you wouldn't play the same way). I think too many people here are trying to get bad players to make correct folds on draws -- make them do in correct calls. The key (and this is the part I struggle with personally) is not paying them off when they hit, because then you just made their draw correct.