1/2 stud/8 hand

[Nick_Foxx]

8-handed table, i've folded about 40 hands in a row

Third Street:
4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] brings it in
4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] folds
7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] calls
T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] calls
4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] calls
6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] folds
I call in last position with [8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Fourth Street:
4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] checks (!)
7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] checks
T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] bets
4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] calls
Me: [8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
I call (with the intention of folding if I do not improve on 5th street), and so does everyone else

Fifth Street:
Me: [8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
I bet out
4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] just calls
7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] actually folds
T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] calls
4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] calls

Sixth Street:
Me: [8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
I bet out again
4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] calls, and so does
T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and
4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Seventh Street:
I end up with [8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] [Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]]

What is my action? What about my play on previous streets?

Thanks

Mike

[PoorLawyer]

I dont know if this is correct, but I would check-call. If you bet out and that A34 caught his low card, he is going to raise, which is ok if he only has the low but you are losing 2 bets if he made a straight. If you check and he bets his low and you call, you only lose 1 bet if he has a straight and if you split the pot that extra bet is getting split anyway so you don't lose much (maybe lose a bet from teh guy with the 8 low showing)

I would have folded on 3rd though.

[Hauser_III]

Check-call on 7th. I also would have folded on 3rd. I'm really curious what T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] has; I'm suspecting a large pair in the hole, probably QQ, maybe AA (not as likely, given that the other two ended up being out on the other boards, but I can't believe he would bet on fourth if he started with a 3-flush or just with split 10's). One of your J's is on the board, so it's hard to represent trip J's, the A34 hand (although not likely to have a wheel, since two of the 5's are out) is going to raise if he's hit a decent low, and one of the hands with an A up, or the T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] hand, could easily have a higher two pair than yours, so I would not lead out again.

[Andy B]

Forty is a lot, and I suspect you exaggerate. Nevertheless, third street is a fold, and I think you know it.

On fourth street, I call and don't like it. It's looking like a one-way hand, and you have some possibilities. The only low possibility is the bring-in, and he has checked a strong board into a somewhat hopeless looking field. He probably has nothing. Hope to hit it hard on fifth.

You hit fifth fairly hard, and I'd bet fifth and sixth. On the river, I'd check and hope for the best. There's a decent chance someone has made a low. At this level, a lot of players won't force a low on sixth street.

But fold on third. Yuck.

[Nick_Foxx]

thanks for the replies, since all 3 of you said i should've folded on 3rd st, i just wanted to present my case for taking a card off:

a) i was in last position and just had to call the bring-in of 50 cents
b) my cards were live
c) my pair was buried

and most important,

d) i was pretty much on tilt after folding so many hands

but the reason i present this hand is for the 7th street decision (which may seem trivial to some), but i was wondering if this was actually a position to value-bet rather than check and call (or check and muck if it's multiple bets back to me)... given that their hands were weak enough to not play back at me on 4th, 5th and 6th, i felt like i might be losing bets by not leading out on 7th...

in the actual hand, i did what you all suggested, which is check, the A349 board bet, and everyone called (so my point about missing a bet was irrelevant in this situation)

mike

[imported_big ben]

I respect the opinions of the other three, but I like your decision to take a card off on 3rd here Nick, for the same reasons that you listed: PROVIDED that you can avoid coughing up too much money if you hit a 2nd best high hand and get jammed.

I also think that a check-call on the river is automatic here. I think that knowing when to value bet a handfull of players with a good-to-marginal hand is one of the toughest skills in 7stud/8...

[Andy B]

I am unmoved by the pocketness of your pair. The bring-in is half-a-bet, so your implied odds aren't really all that great. Your cards are indeed live, but only the other two Eights would get me halfway excited about this hand. It's 20:1 against your hitting one of them on fourth, at which time you'll probably be facing a bet to see if you can get lucky on fifth, and most of the time I won't want to be calling that bet.

I think it's reasonable to assume that the 4 and the 7 are on low draws, and the bring-in might have a low draw too. So you're playing for half the pot. The Ten is somewhat likely to have a better high hand than yours. This hand is garbage and should be treated as such.

Ray has this in category 14 out of 15. It just isn't worth playing except in circumstances that almost never come up at $1/2.

[Nick_Foxx]

i went to twodimes.net to prove that i wasn't the person who had the LEAST business to be in this hand

i inputted the 3 starting cards of the 4 players who went to showdown, plus the 3rd street cards of people who folded along the way

8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 23.2% EV
2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 26.7% EV
3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 28.9% EV
5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 21.2% EV

dead cards: 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

thus, the split tens had the least amount of business being in the hand... next was me, but at least i wasn't the worst

mike

[jon_1van]

actually Nick...with the antes you have the odds to play

[Hauser_III]

I would go out of my way to play any hi-lo table the guy with the 10 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] is sitting at. He bet out on 4th with crap, and stayed through 6th. I like those people.