How do you play TPWK?

popniklas · #1 01-11-2005, 03:13 PM

Hi! I have a problem. Most of the time when I flop top pair with a weak kicker, I really dont know how to play it.

The advice I have read in poker books seem the contradict each other. Some say check this hand in EP, then see what happens and get out if it is much action. Some say you should bet (and get out if it is much action).

Under what circumstances should i bet, check/call, check/fold (or anything else) with this hand? Thankful for your thoughts. Below is some examples of flopping TPWK, I would appreciate comments on those.

Examples of situations:
1. I limp from LP with A7s, after four other people, one of them calling from UTG. Flop comes A-J-3 (none in my suit). Betting on the flop goes: check-bet-call-call and then it's me, acting last (except for the checker who might be planning a checkraise). Should I fold here? What if the flop gave me a backdoor flush?

2. I limp with K9 from SB after two callers in EP and LP. BB checks and we are four who sees the flop. Flop comes: K-Q-8 rainbow. I am first to act. What to do? Would there be any difference if I held K2 instead of K9?

3. Seven people view the flop, including me limping from MP with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Flop comes A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. The two EP limpers check to me on the flop, with four persons acting after me. What to do?

davelin · #2 01-11-2005, 03:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hi! I have a problem. Most of the time when I flop top pair with a weak kicker, I really dont know how to play it.

The advice I have read in poker books seem the contradict each other. Some say check this hand in EP, then see what happens and get out if it is much action. Some say you should bet (and get out if it is much action).

Under what circumstances should i bet, check/call, check/fold (or anything else) with this hand? Thankful for your thoughts. Below is some examples of flopping TPWK, I would appreciate comments on those.

Examples of situations:
1. I limp from LP with A7s, after four other people, one of them calling from UTG. Flop comes A-J-3 (none in my suit). Betting on the flop goes: check-bet-call-call and then it's me, acting last (except for the checker who might be planning a checkraise). Should I fold here? What if the flop gave me a backdoor flush?

2. I limp with K9 from SB after two callers in EP and LP. BB checks and we are four who sees the flop. Flop comes: K-Q-8 rainbow. I am first to act. What to do? Would there be any difference if I held K2 instead of K9?

3. Seven people view the flop, including me limping from MP with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Flop comes A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. The two EP limpers check to me on the flop, with four persons acting after me. What to do?

[/ QUOTE ]

A T kicker isn't a weak kicker. This is an easy bet.

Hack · #3 01-11-2005, 03:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hi! I have a problem. Most of the time when I flop top pair with a weak kicker, I really dont know how to play it.

The advice I have read in poker books seem the contradict each other. Some say check this hand in EP, then see what happens and get out if it is much action. Some say you should bet (and get out if it is much action).

Under what circumstances should i bet, check/call, check/fold (or anything else) with this hand? Thankful for your thoughts. Below is some examples of flopping TPWK, I would appreciate comments on those.

Examples of situations:
1. I limp from LP with A7s, after four other people, one of them calling from UTG. Flop comes A-J-3 (none in my suit). Betting on the flop goes: check-bet-call-call and then it's me, acting last (except for the checker who might be planning a checkraise). Should I fold here? What if the flop gave me a backdoor flush?

2. I limp with K9 from SB after two callers in EP and LP. BB checks and we are four who sees the flop. Flop comes: K-Q-8 rainbow. I am first to act. What to do? Would there be any difference if I held K2 instead of K9?

3. Seven people view the flop, including me limping from MP with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Flop comes A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. The two EP limpers check to me on the flop, with four persons acting after me. What to do?

[/ QUOTE ]

A T kicker isn't a weak kicker. This is an easy bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. a weak kicker is a kicker below 8. A7 and below is a weak kicker. A8-A10 is a medium kicker, and AJ-AK is a good kicker, with the K obviously being top kicker.

With AT, you are only scared of someone having AJ, AQ, and AK. Those hands are less likely, especially AK. Someone having AK probably would have raised preflop.

But if you have a hand like A5, then you could worry about being outkicked.

popniklas · #4 01-11-2005, 03:31 PM

True, a T isn't a weak kicker. I included that hand since I am unsure of how to play medium kickers too. With that many people in the pot, some passive player may hold something like AQ or AJ. But i see your point, most people would raise PF with a hand like that. I suppose you are right about betting here.

What if I my kicker here was 6-9? (I would of course fold PF here if they weren't suited.)

(Can't wait 'til I recieve SSH from Amazon...)

Hack · #5 01-11-2005, 03:35 PM

If f one of your opponent also has an Ace, and you have A-10, there are only 3 kickers better than yours. There are 8 that are worse than yours. Since many low limit players will play any Ace, chances are there is no better Ace in the hand, chances are it's a worse one.

popniklas · #6 01-11-2005, 03:51 PM

Indeed they do. I just don't know where you should draw the limit between betting and folding here. A7? A6? A5? Only fold a weak pair of aces if there is a raise? Would it ever be correct to check/call here?

Thanks for your help, btw! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

KingOtter · #7 01-11-2005, 03:41 PM

Disclaimer: I'm still learning, too, so don't take everything I say here as gospel... [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[ QUOTE ]
1. I limp from LP with A7s, after four other people, one of them calling from UTG. Flop comes A-J-3 (none in my suit). Betting on the flop goes: check-bet-call-call and then it's me, acting last (except for the checker who might be planning a checkraise). Should I fold here? What if the flop gave me a backdoor flush?

[/ QUOTE ]

1. I don't think you should fold. You have top pair. The BIG kickers (AK-AJ) probably aren't around or you would have seen flop raises, most likely.

You didn't say if any of the flops matched suits. The better could be betting a Jack, or a flush draw with the number of callers that are around. Since you have bad position a raise probably won't chase anyone out, but I wouldn't mind calling that one.

If the flop has 2 of your suit and there are 3 or more callers, you need to raise for value. Not so for backdoor suits, but if you have top pair along with backdoor straight/flush draws you're looking pretty good.

[ QUOTE ]
2. I limp with K9 from SB after two callers in EP and LP. BB checks and we are four who sees the flop. Flop comes: K-Q-8 rainbow. I am first to act. What to do? Would there be any difference if I held K2 instead of K9?

[/ QUOTE ]

2. K2 would be fold pre-flop, for one thing. K9 at least you have an outside shot at a straight. Since there were no pre-flop raises, KQ, AK, KK aren't likely, so again I'd say you're looking good. KJ, KT are possible, but I'd still bet out, and check/call the turn if I'm raised (if it is re-raised I'd probably fold). With a small pot and a top pair, you're looking good. Rainbow kills flush draw, so only thing you have to worry about is OESD.

[ QUOTE ]
3. Seven people view the flop, including me limping from MP with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Flop comes A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. The two EP limpers check to me on the flop, with four persons acting after me. What to do?

[/ QUOTE ]

3. Others already mentioned, T is not a bad kicker. Backdoor flush, backdoor straight, top pair good kicker... I'd probably raise.

KO

popniklas · #8 01-11-2005, 04:06 PM

Thanks for your post! I suppose I should be more selective with hands I play from SB and perhaps more aggressive with top pair and 8-T kickers. (I never play K2o from SB, but sometimes I play hands like K7o, which might be a bad play... i will stop doing that.)

jaxUp · #9 01-11-2005, 03:48 PM

with no pf raise I will bet a TPWK flop almost every time to try and get people with 2nd or third pair out. If you get raised, you can usually call and checkfold the turn UI. If people just call I bet the turn again unless a major scare card comes (4 to a straight or flush). If I get raised here I usually fold it. Same goes for the river. I like to play it aggressively without a hgh level of attachment. Another case that I love is when there is a low pair on the board and I have TPWK. Any face card that hits now is your best friend.

I agree with what was said above. weak is about 7 or lower.