The Fountainhead and the like...

[RandBriscoe]

Maybe this isn't the place to post this... It seems to me that Ayn Rand might be quite popular amongst poker players. I was wondering if any of you guys/gals have read Ayn?

It seems to make sense for this group of people for a few reasons.

1. Her emphasis on individualism
2. Ignoring short-term results in favor of long-term principle-based thinking.
3. I thought SSHE said it perfectly with something to the effect of poker being a terrible game for those who play primarily to impress one's peers. This idea conicides with Ayn Rand's view of one's self being one's source of value and not the way others percieve you.

Any thoughts?

[mshalen]

I have been an Ayn Rand follower for over 30 years and I never would have imagined seeing Poker and Ayn Rand in the same sentence.

[TomCollins]

Isn't the term "Ayn Rand follower" a contradiction?

[jakethebake]

This has been discussed before. Try a search. I don't remember if it was politics, psychology or oot. I thought The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged were both great.

[disjunction]

I call your Ayn Rand and raise you one Spock -- "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one".

I know, it's a string bet.

[Ragnar]

There are some people who post on this forum who are well acquainted with Rand's ideas, and there have been some threads in "Other Topics." I work at a think tank devoted to Rand's philosophy. Of course my screen name is derived from a Rand character.

The three points made by RandBriscoe are valid. Those are consistent with her philosophy. I also loved TomCollins' point about the irony of the use of the term "Rand follower."

Ragnar

[RandBriscoe]

Ragnar,

Is a pleasure to find someone as devoted to Objectivism as you are. I was curious as to what your thoughts are about Ayn's probable position on +EV gaming. Do you think she would view it as a legitimate profession so long as one treated it that way (principled, focused, skilled, the like...)? Or do you think she is likely to view it as a non-productive (thus, at very best, morally neutral) endeavour?

FWIW, I tend to agree with the former.

-Edward Barron

[Ragnar]

RandBriscoe,

I don't usually concern myself with what Rand would have thought about an issue. Rather I try to apply her philosophy to a question.

Productivity is one of the major Objectivist values.In world in which people are free to do anything they want that doesn't harm another--without government interference, playing poker (even +EV poker) is not the most productive thing that a person can do. However, in a mixed economy sliding toward collectivism professional poker is an excellent choice of profession. The professional poker player applies his skill to earn money. If he is good at what he does he will make money in the long run (and the long run can be much longer than what most people think.) He is free to go where he wishes, and play where he wants and when he wants(although there is sometimes governmental interference.)

Of course the slogans "Two Plus Two" and "A is A" both proclaim the supremacy of reason.

I can envision Rand's characters Ragnar Danneskjold and Francisco d'Anconia as poker players--and have chosen Ragnar as my screen name here for that reason.

Ragnar

[kagame]

i was just curious if you would tell us a little about the think tank you work for? im a libertarian political science student at KU who will probably be looking for internships at some point in the future...

as far as the implications of objectivism on the profession of poker are concerned i would argue that:

1) how many opportunities are there in todays society to be your own boss? in all the different ways of interpreting that phrase, VERY FEW

2) using poker to create a personal income is one of these rare activities

3) the game of poker supports and is integrated into the capitalistic system that we are a part of, casinos are a valid service-business venture

4) one should do what one finds challenging, fulfilling/rewarding, and intellectually stimulating. you are not accountable to the will and wellbeing of society, self determination is critical

[Ragnar]

kagame asks about the think tank that I work at. It is called The Objectivist Center. It is currently located in Poughkeepsie, N.Y., but we are moving to Washington, D.C., shortly. We produce books and articles about philosophy, cultural commentary, political commentary, put on seminars, sells books and have a website--among other things. Our website is Objectivist Center It is unlikely that we will have internships this year, but may have some in the future.

tek asks about Cliffs notes for Rand's books. They exist for Atlas Shrugged , The Fountainhead and Anthem. It would be silly to read the Cliffs Notes for Anthem though since it is so short.

Ragnar