Strange step 5 hand with Gigabet

DrGonzo · #1 01-05-2005, 02:31 PM

This hand was played a few days ago, in the beginning of a step 5 tournament. I know Giga is a very good player, but I can't see his thinking behind this play. Can you?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed) converter

saw flop|saw showdown

UTG+1 (Slon_T) (t1210)
Hero (t970)
MP1 (t900)
MP2 (t975)
MP3 (t970)
CO (t1000)
Button (Gigabet) (t870)
SB (t1105)
BB (t1000)
UTG (t1000)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 (Slon_T) raises to t125, Hero folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button (Gigabet) calls t125, SB folds, BB folds.

Flop: (t275) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Slon_T bets t1085 (All-In), Gigabet calls t745 (All-In).

Turn: (t2105) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: (t2105) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: t2105

Results in white below: 
Slon_T has 2h 2s (full house, twos full of kings).
Gigabet has 5s 6c (two pair, kings and sixes).
Outcome: Slon_T wins t2105. 

It turned out that the guy he was playing against was a pretty reckless player. This was in the beginning of the tourney, but Giga could have had notes on him of course. I still don't see a reason to call the preflop raise with 56. Even if you hit the flop and the guy checks, you can't know if you have him beat.

I would really like to hear your ideas about this [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. Thx!

Daliman · #2 01-05-2005, 03:14 PM

Giga commonly calls raises from players he feels he can control/outplay/read flop on. Exactly what he did here.

The Yugoslavian · #3 01-05-2005, 04:44 PM

This has got to be on the $. Gigabet would never make this play 'standard' unless he had a read or previous knowledge about his opponent. Against certain opponents (if you're reading and postflop skills are high caliber) you can call with any two (sort of what Giga did) and it is +EV.

Yugoslav

BigHobo · #4 01-05-2005, 07:42 PM

The cards he's holding don't make much of a difference if he's confident that he can get his opponent to fold before showdown. He may even be planning on showing his 56o as he collects his chips. What would be interesting is to see what his strategy would have been if he had not hit his flop and the opponent would have done something other than an all-in.

Of course once the flop came down KK6 and the all-in bet was made, calling, although risky, doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

HoldingFolding · #5 01-07-2005, 01:33 AM

In the long run, with players so knowledgeable of each other's play, surely this type of play is essential.

There's no way this was a misclick. If you think you are up against Ax (which is what I think he thought it was) then calling here can be EV+, simply because players cannot get away from decent preflop hands.

The massive all in overbet says (to me) "I have Ax and I missed the flop". He made a perfect appraisal of the situation and got sucked out on the river - they'd have heard me scream "MF" in Hawaii.

Ezcheeze · #6 01-07-2005, 06:58 AM

It doesn't become +EV just because you THINK he has Ax. He actually has to have Ax. But in REALITY he will have a whole range of hands. And if he bets large or pushes on most flops like he did this time then there isn't anything you can do except fold unless you make a pair or better and alot of those times you will be behind also. It doesn't even matter if you get the money in sometimes as a favorite since most of the time you will just fold the flop losing preflop money theres no way you can make it up the times you are ahead. O and say the board comes AQ6 and he bets all in, do you call then??

By the way his opponent had 22 not Ax.

Sorry to be going on a rant here guys but I really think preflop is a clear fold and I'd really like to hear some better reasoning from those who defend this play.

-Ezcheeze

ReDeYES88 · #7 01-07-2005, 09:38 AM

[ QUOTE ]
By the way his opponent had 22 not Ax.

[/ QUOTE ]

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].

HoldingFolding · #8 01-07-2005, 10:54 PM

Interesting that Imcastleman thought this was a misclick. Can you confirm it with your brother (I believe he's stopped posting)

My point was not that he had Ax, but that Gigabet put him on that hand given the massive overbet. He was only slightly wrong; 22 vs Ace high.

Ezcheeze · #9 01-07-2005, 12:04 AM

How do you control and outplay a player when he just goes all in on the flop? You can read him somewhat but that's worth so little since you will almost never have a callable hand with 56o on the flop after he goes all in.

-Ezcheeze

SlowStroke · #10 01-05-2005, 03:21 PM

A pretty standard call on the flop, I think.

If Slon_T had AA, QQ, JJ, TT he would be more careful and bet less.

If he had a King, he would make a smaller value bet, hoping for a call. Or most likely go for a check raise.

The all-in here is normally a weak player trying to pick up the pot.

I see this kind of play all the time.

Yes, sometime you will be fooled and be beaten (or outdrawn) but in the long run, calling is a winning play here.