Optimal W$SD %

driller · #1 01-02-2005, 12:21 PM

Ok. I've searched and searched, but I find no definitive answer. From what I've seen it is between 50 and 55% for a TAG. Correct?

Freakin · #2 01-02-2005, 01:35 PM

I've heard the higher end of that range is what you want to be shooting for. Also, for those more experienced, does a significant drop in W$SD with the same WTSD% a typical sign of a downswing? I just can't win lately, and my W$SD has dropped from 54% to 40% with my WTSD staying about teh same.

Freakin

GrunchCan · #3 01-02-2005, 02:54 PM

I think the optimal range is actually 55-58. Anything < 50 is a sign of a signifigant play problem.

BottlesOf · #4 01-02-2005, 03:36 PM

55-58 has the range a little high I think. Just a few points though. If your W$SD is like 58 it may mean you're giving up too early on some hands.

TommyO · #5 01-03-2005, 01:26 PM

How can you be giving up too early on hands you showdown? I'm not trying to be a prick, just want to know if I'm missing something.

GrunchCan · #6 01-03-2005, 01:53 PM

If W%SD is too high, its becasue you muck hands you should show down. It could be a signal of weak-tight play.

Fudomyo · #7 01-03-2005, 01:53 PM

Giving up to early affects your showdown numbers. If you played those hands you folded your %'s would go down (cause you prolly lose), but you might actually make more $.

Shillx · #8 01-03-2005, 04:15 AM

I'm in that range. It is too high IMO.

Brad

driller · #9 01-03-2005, 01:03 PM

Well, maybe so. After all, this is why I asked. I will say that my stats are slightly less than 50% for both 3/6 and 5/10 (about 8k hands each) and I'm winning 2.4 bb/100 at 5/10 and 3.4 bb/100 at 3/6. I would like to get my W$SD rate up a little higher, though.

In looking at players with 100-500 hands with similar stats, the big difference in bb/100 seems to correlate with W$SD. Right now I think this is mostly due to luck. In other words, if using bisons autorate system, I've got 2 good players (both tags) then the one with the higher bb/100 will almost always have the higher W$SD pc. So, in the short run, I think he's just running better.

Ed Miller says these guys bluff a lot and that paying off in big pots is not a leak. Maybe I've been carrying this advice too far.

GrunchCan · #10 01-03-2005, 02:05 PM

I think that in order for W%SD to be in the optimum range (whatever that is), you must play marginal hands very well. Playing marginal hands well post-flop is, IMO, the hardest skill to acquire in holdem.

So, you could be a winning player overall with a nominal W%SD, but you would be more winning with an optimal W%SD. It's something that needs to be worked on, but don't just massage the stats. You need to study postflop play hard. When your postflop play improves, so will W%SD.

One more thing...

In other words, if using bisons autorate system, I've got 2 good players (both tags)

Maybe I'm being tempermental, but I see this kind of comment a lot. Bison's system - while invaluable - does not rate a player's skill at holdem. It just rates how tight they are PF and how aggressive they are pre- and post-flop. Weather or not they are correctly tight or use aggression correctly is a much more signifigant question; and a much harder question to answer. Only seeing them play can give you the answer to this.

Here's an example to illustrate. A weak-tight player playing strictly by WLLH would probably get a $ icon using bison's system. But they would be a marginally winning player, who would get crushed by many 2+2ers who may not even get a $ icon themselves for being too loose PF. The weak-tight player certianly isn't bad. But is he good? I think not.