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#1
12-31-2004, 12:10 PM
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Raising rule question -- green and red
$200 max buy-in NLHE game, $2-$5 blinds. I have many red and green chips in front of me, I'm in MP. A few limpers in front of me. I intend to raise, and flick in a green chip without uttering a word. Dealer doesn't say anything.
Others bet $5 after me. As the dealer is ready to spread the flop, he informs me, "Your bet is treated as a $5 call, not a raise to $25." I ask, "So if I bet five $5 chips, you treat that as a raise, but if I bet one green chip you treat that as a call?" "Yep." "If I bet five $5 chips, do I have to say 'raise'?" "No," Dealer responds. "Look, I don't know what your bet is with this chip. If you play this chip," waiving the green chip in my face, "you have to say 'raise'." "But I have red chips in front of me. Why would I play a green chip if I intend to just call? I would play a red chip if I intend to call." "Sorry, thems the rules," says Dealer. So now my KK enters the fray unprotected. Questions: 1. Is thems really the rules? Why is one green treated differently than five red here? I was not forced to use a green here to make a call and get change (I had plenty of red). 2. Should a good Dealer inform me of these technicolor rules and ask about my intention before the betting continues past me? 
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#2
12-31-2004, 12:13 PM
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Re: Raising rule question -- green and red
You could toss a 1k chip into the pot and it's a call. This is done to increase the speed of the game. And #2 is ridiculous, no. We want to speed the game up right.
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#3
12-31-2004, 12:22 PM
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Re: Raising rule question -- green and red
[ QUOTE ]
1. Is thems really the rules? Why is one green treated differently than five red here? I was not forced to use a green here to make a call and get change (I had plenty of red). [/ QUOTE ] Definitely -- even if, as you described, it makes no sense given the person's assortment of chips. The rules can't be ambiguous... imagine if the rule were "a higher-value chip only constitutes a raise if the player has enough lower-value chips in front of him to cover it", etc. [ QUOTE ] 2. Should a good Dealer inform me of these technicolor rules and ask about my intention before the betting continues past me? [/ QUOTE ] The first time this happened to me, the dealer did exactly that, and I tipped him for it. If I were the dealer, I would announce the first time it happened at any given table, and consider the players warned after that. So, yes, I think a good dealer would warn you about this mistake, provided that it didn't just happen to the player next to you on the previous hand. -DB
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#4
12-31-2004, 12:49 PM
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Re: Raising rule question -- green and red
didnt read the 2 replies so excuse me if im redundant, but yes that is the rules, and they are good rules btw. you have to announce raise when throwing in a single chip to make implied communication easier on the other players at the table. just because you have red chips in front of you doesnt mean that other players at the table necessarily know that. what if you had 45 green chips in front of you, and 1 red? if you threw the green chip in the middle and didnt say raise, according to your rules, someone may fold a hand he would have played for $5 not knowing that you had a $5 chip in your stack.
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#5
12-31-2004, 01:45 PM
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Re: Raising rule question -- green and red
A similar situation came up at commerce 3/5 game. A player had been given change in $10 chips, along with the typical $5 chips we all were using. He threw out a $10 and next to act puts out $5. The player said he raised, the dealer said no he didnt, floor was called. Floor said because he had both $5 and $10 chips, that it should be obvious he intended to raise. Raise stands.
Most of the time at commerce, when someone puts out a higher than normal chip, the dealer will ask "raise or call".
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#7
12-31-2004, 05:42 PM
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Re: Raising rule question -- green and red
[ QUOTE ]
Floor said because he had both $5 and $10 chips, that it should be obvious he intended to raise. Raise stands. [/ QUOTE ] With those sort of rulings, I wonder if the next step in the process would have been to look at your cards... ..."oh, well, you have AKs. You probably meant to raise. Raise stands." -DB
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#8
12-31-2004, 06:19 PM
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Re: Raising rule question -- green and red
[ QUOTE ]
A similar situation came up at commerce 3/5 game. A player had been given change in $10 chips, along with the typical $5 chips we all were using. He threw out a $10 and next to act puts out $5. The player said he raised, the dealer said no he didnt, floor was called. Floor said because he had both $5 and $10 chips, that it should be obvious he intended to raise. Raise stands. Most of the time at commerce, when someone puts out a higher than normal chip, the dealer will ask "raise or call". [/ QUOTE ] That's a terrible ruling -- I don't play in California but I have always understood the one chip rule to be that a one chip bet, bigger than the size of a call, is a call unless the player verbally declares a raise prior to betting. This prevents angle shooting, string betting and a host of related problems.
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#9
12-31-2004, 03:07 PM
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Re: Raising rule question -- green and red
These are the rules in every casino I've ever played in. First time I made this mistake stunk, but now you know.
ALWAYS announce raises. It will protect you from string raising as well.
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#10
12-31-2004, 03:07 PM
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Re: Raising rule question -- green and red
I've never even played in a b&m but even I know that if you toss any chip into a pot, you must declare raise, otherwise it is considered a call. Doesn't matter if you're playing $10/$20 and toss a $500 chip in -- it's a call.
you stated your mistake perfectly -- you said you didn't utter a word. You must say "raise."
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