AJs in mid/late tounament

Rizen · #1 12-13-2004, 04:34 PM

Sorry, at work so I don't have the actual hand history handy:

Comments on ALL aspects of the play welcome.

This is a 20+2 Stars NL tournament, blinds are at 300/600 with a 50 ante and 9 players at the table. There are ~175 players left in the tournament with the top 63 getting paid. Getting just into the money on the bubble isn't as important to me as giving myself a reasonable chance at a final table finish. Rizen is dealt A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] UTG and has ~6500 chips left. Table has been fairly tight often folding around to a standard raise of ~1800.

I (UTG) raise to 1800.
UTG+1 (player to my left, with a slightly deeper stack than mine around 7000 chips who has played pretty tight all game) cold calls for 1800, everyone else folds around leaving just me and the player to my left in with 4950 in the pot.

Flop comes A47 rainbow with the 4 being a club. I bet 2100 into the pot and the player to my left raises me all in after thinking about 10 seconds.

What do I do here?

Not only what do I do here, but what about my pre-flop line of an 1800 raise?

All comments welcome.

-Rizen

MLG · #2 12-13-2004, 04:37 PM

raise is fine (but a little dangerous) if you plan on folding if reraised. You should check the flop with the plan of calling if he bets. If he checks behind, then I would bet the turn if a drawish type of card comes. If the turn totally blanks I might check again to try and make him put more in the pot. I don't think you can realistically look to get off this hand in this spot (its gonna suck if he has AK, AQ) but with these few chips, thems the breaks.

tentwenty · #3 12-13-2004, 04:45 PM

Your bet on the flop commits you to showdown. You absolutely cannot fold this since you will be the bb next hand and will be blinded off. I would have raised the same preflop then checked the flop to see his action, with the most likely response being a checkraise all in. If he has AK you most likely would have been reraised preflop. You fear AA or AQ. He would likely sloplay AA with this flop and therefore probably has AQ given the fact that he knows you will likely call. With that much money in the pot already you gotta call anyway.

davidross · #4 12-13-2004, 05:05 PM

THe big decision on this hand is the pre-flop play. I hate this hand even on the button in NL. It's unlikely you are being called by a worse hand. Once you decide to play it though, how can you do anything but get all your chips in here? If you were cold decked so be it. I have been folding AJ and AQ UTG lately but maybe thats too tight.

Rizen · #5 12-13-2004, 05:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
THe big decision on this hand is the pre-flop play. I hate this hand even on the button in NL. It's unlikely you are being called by a worse hand. Once you decide to play it though, how can you do anything but get all your chips in here? If you were cold decked so be it. I have been folding AJ and AQ UTG lately but maybe thats too tight.

[/ QUOTE ]

This was more or less online with my post-hand thinking. The table was playing tight enough I was really hoping to take the pot down without a contest.

I feel I forgot an important concept from Tournament Poker for Advanced Players though. There is an entire section that is titled (I believe) "Don't turn AQ into 27" that discusses the merits of a sizable raise with hands like AQ/AJ/KQ/TT that are strong hands, but not hands you want to be calling an all-in re-raise or playing for huge pots post flop.

That being said I believe that it may have been a better decision to either min-raise or just limp hoping to see a flop. I also think the 1800 raise committed way too much of my stack into a hand that I really didn't want to see cold called or re-raised here, as I believe the gap concept applies here and I'm going to either take down the pot right there uncontested, or I'm going to be behind going into the flop.

I'm curious why a majority of people favor checking this flop as well if they plan on calling a sizable bet anyways? Given how tight this player is I feel that betting is probably better as I think there is a good chance he lays his hand down here, and I really don't know that I want to give a free card here. My bet size may have been a bit on the high side instead of just pushing here instead of calling a push, but anything less than half the pot just seemed way too weak to me...

-Rizen

Potowame · #6 12-13-2004, 05:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]

I'm curious why a majority of people favor checking this flop as well if they plan on calling a sizable bet anyways? Given how tight this player is I feel that betting is probably better as I think there is a good chance he lays his hand down here, and I really don't know that I want to give a free card here. My bet size may have been a bit on the high side instead of just pushing here instead of calling a push, but anything less than half the pot just seemed way too weak to me...

[/ QUOTE ]

The Theory I guess is that a player here may fold JJ-KK here to a large bet , and of course call you with any ace that beats you or ties. So, you are going to lose the same amount of chips on this hand no matter what, you pretty well have to push your stack or call it off. With that being said you are better off trying to get them to bet a hand that you are ahead of, by check calling.

MLG · #7 12-13-2004, 05:37 PM

If you're winning then your opponent is drawing very slim. He probably only has 2 outs (maybe 3). I'm willing to risk him drawing for free in order to try and tempt him into betting a hand that im beating. You can be sure in this situation that he isnt gonna be calling you with a hand you beat.

Diplomat · #8 12-14-2004, 03:07 AM

[ QUOTE ]

I'm curious why a majority of people favor checking this flop as well if they plan on calling a sizable bet anyways? Given how tight this player is I feel that betting is probably better as I think there is a good chance he lays his hand down here, and I really don't know that I want to give a free card here. My bet size may have been a bit on the high side instead of just pushing here instead of calling a push, but anything less than half the pot just seemed way too weak to me...

-Rizen

[/ QUOTE ]

Basically, given your stack size and the pot size etc etc etc., all the money is going in the middle anyway. If you bet big, he's got an easy fold for any pair. And there is no way he's going to lay down AQ or AK on this flop if he called you pre-flop. If you check, there is a chance he will bet with a pair hand of some sort, at least a higher chance than him calling a big bet on this flop.

You just want to get your stack in against as many hands as possible on this flop, and check-raising (not check calling) is the best way to do it.

-Diplomat

nolanfan34 · #9 12-13-2004, 05:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I have been folding AJ and AQ UTG lately but maybe thats too tight.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think so. In Harrington's new book, he mentions routinely folding these types of hands UTG, and limping sometimes when they're suited. His recommendations are pretty darn tight up front, but they make sense.

That guy · #10 12-13-2004, 07:18 PM

I muck this given the stack size and position. That said, pretending you were in later position; if you are going to raise with AJ you are going to have to continue when you flop your A.

Why not check/min-raise the flop? If he bets small, you min-raise and he calls -- I would move in on the next card.

He could easily have something like 88-JJ here. I would really only fear AQ or a set.