If 2+2 books sold for $10 ...

[_2000Flushes]

No doubt Mason and David have determined to the penny how much to charge for their books in order to maximize profits. But I wonder how things would be different if they were sold for as little as $10.

It would be nice to know how much harder the average game is because of 2+2. (Or maybe it's contributed so much to poker's popularity that it has actually loosened the average game.)

Anyway, if the casual player were able to pick up a copy of HEPFAP or SSHE for $10 rather than $25, I imagine the impact on soft games would be pretty substantial.

-2kF

[sthief09]

people have to want to get better in order to get better. I bet if you went to a 3/6 game in a casino and started handing out free 2+2 books, the majority of the people would either decline or take the book and either not read it or give up on reading it after a short while. people go to casinos to gamble. playing the 2+2 way isn't as fun as throwing chips in the pot and hoping for the best. sometimes you'll go an hour and see one flop. that's not what people go for.

besides, even for the low limit games like 3/6, $25 is nothing for someone who wants to improve. I bought a bunch of books before I was even a winning player. I had a desire to become better. I don't think most have that

[_2000Flushes]

[ QUOTE ]
playing the 2+2 way isn't as fun as throwing chips in the pot and hoping for the best.

[/ QUOTE ]


Good point. Maybe a better question would be whether the games would be much looser if the books sold instead for $75.

Do you think that those of us who read these books are in such a minority that it wouldn't make a difference?

I think you're right, though. It's very comforting to remember that so many players aren't interested in concerted improvement.

-2kF

[johnnybeef]

[ QUOTE ]
people have to want to get better in order to get better. I bet if you went to a 3/6 game in a casino and started handing out free 2+2 books, the majority of the people would either decline or take the book and either not read it or give up on reading it after a short while. people go to casinos to gamble. playing the 2+2 way isn't as fun as throwing chips in the pot and hoping for the best. sometimes you'll go an hour and see one flop. that's not what people go for.

besides, even for the low limit games like 3/6, $25 is nothing for someone who wants to improve. I bought a bunch of books before I was even a winning player. I had a desire to become better. I don't think most have that

[/ QUOTE ]

this is absolutley true. case in point, i gave my little brother a couple of books for his birthday in September as he was starting to play pretty regularly online. When i went home in november for thanksgiving, there was dust on them. Being a winning poker player takes a fierce competetiveness that many people simply do not have. Furthermore, many of the concepts within the 2+2 texts are very difficult to grasp so merely reading them is not enough to improve. Finally there is a mirage in the game of poker that is created when short term luck interacts with denial that causes many people to think they are good, however if they were to keep a few records, they would see that it is quite the contrary.

heres to the fish
Johnny

[phixxx]

When it comes to things that I enjoy, I am always strive to compete at the HIGHEST level of competition. Probably why I picked the game up relatively quickly.

[LALDAAS]

[ QUOTE ]
people have to want to get better in order to get better. I bet if you went to a 3/6 game in a casino and started handing out free 2+2 books, the majority of the people would either decline or take the book and either not read it or give up on reading it after a short while. people go to casinos to gamble. playing the 2+2 way isn't as fun as throwing chips in the pot and hoping for the best. sometimes you'll go an hour and see one flop. that's not what people go for.

besides, even for the low limit games like 3/6, $25 is nothing for someone who wants to improve. I bought a bunch of books before I was even a winning player. I had a desire to become better. I don't think most have that

[/ QUOTE ]

This is as true as it gets. I started my home game about 5 months ago. My friends really took to the game and enjoy it, even though they hand the cash over to me week after week. My best bud was showing some serious disire to improve his play. So I watched his game for a few minutes and watch him called down J3o to the river. So I asked him "what the hell were you doing!" His reply was "I was going for the striaght?" [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Seeing how much help he really needs I loaned and put him on the three book plan 1)WLLH 2)TOP 3)SSH

Three weeks later we are sitting round poker table this saturday, He is bleeding his chips away. I asked him how far along he was in his reading he said" Im still in chapter 2 of WLLH, I kinda gave up on the book" [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

You can lead a horse to water as the saying goes! [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[MicroBob]

Just think of all the posters who show up on these forums, think they have all the answers, make a couple of posts, and are never heard from again.

The knowledge in these forums is FREE for crying out loud.

Just reading a bunch of HH's and the discussions about them in the micro and SS forums will give you a general idea of how to play (at least to the extent of NOT chasing with J3o).



Different idea -
When I first arrived on these forums and still didn't really know how to play (I had gone into ULTRA ULTRA weak-tight mode) I was playing a live 3/6 game and 3 or 4 of the players on my end of the table were discussing Sklansky (pot-odds, etc).
I wasn't involved in the discussion as I was more interested in listening to what some of the typical fish had to say (not really realizing that I still was one also).
A couple of these guys who were talking Sklansky were playing Axo, making ridiculous bluffs, etc. and clearly had even less understanding of the game then I did.

There are MANY people who think they are playing the CORRECT Sklansky-way who aren't even close.
As I said earlier....many of those types of players make brief appearances on these forums all the time.

[morgan180]

[ QUOTE ]
There are MANY people who think they are playing the CORRECT Sklansky-way who aren't even close.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is SO true. I read the books over and over, and re-read sections trying to improve my game, and I have a long way to go. It's amazing that people will pick up on one or two thoughts, apply them wrong, and think they are playing correctly.

The 2+2 books are like college-level text books, one read is not going to cut it. I have read SSH 3 times and each time I pick it up I find myself finding something I'm doing wrong.

Great point.

[JoeC]

I may have already told this story on the forums, and if so, I apologize.

Once I was on the list for a 3-6 game...long wait so I brought in Theory of Poker from the car to read while I was waiting. I finally get called maybe 45 minutes later, and since I couldn't really do anything with the book I just brought it to the table and set it underneath my chair.

The guy two seats down from me (straddling blind at all opportunities, raising every pot, etc.) saw the book. He said, "Hey, you know David Sklansky's dead, right?"

I obviously had not realized this tragic occurance, and asked the guy about it.

The guy said, "Yeah, he committed suicide from losing too much money playing poker... I wouldn't read his books if I were you." COMPLETELY serious.

Now, I don't know if this was just to throw me off my game or if the guy actually believed it, but I have always supsected the latter. At any rate, this was probably the funniest thing I've witnessed at a poker table to this day.

[BlueBear]

Hand out free "The Theory of Poker" books in the casino and tell them you will give them $100 as a reward for finishing the book.

The casual player simply does not care to learn even if he is paid to learn it for a fee. "Learning is boring", so they say.