Party's passives. I can't understand them; How can I adapt?

[AlphaMeridian]

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (8 handed)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (3 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, SB folds.

Okay, the table alowed me to flop the top pair. Decent enough for a bet, my kicker isn't great, but it may pull through

Turn: (2.50 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">UTG+1 raises</font>, Hero calls.

Again, still have top pair, OESD as well...but what's this? the fish woke up? Does he already have it? Wait a minute AK would have raised preflop for this, he didn't even raise the overcards on the flop....wtf is this? This can't be TT....

River: (6.50 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, Hero calls.

The call was probably stupid. No, the call was really stupid. Here I am, calling down a LP-P when I know that he had AK.

Final Pot: 8.50 BB

That being said, he shows AK and I lose. However, this is common for me. I'll have a decent holding, bet it, some card will come, and I'm thinking "no, AK, AA, KK, QQ would have raised preflop, that COUDLN"T have helped him", only to dicover, yes, they did have those premium hands and they ousted me on it. Part of this, I will admit, is me overplaying the stuff I do have. The other part, well, its me quite simply not knowing how to adapt to this kind of play. My natural tendency is to get very passive as well, OTOH, can I really call any of their bets in this mode? Where i'm checking say, 2 pair with 3 to a flush on the board, they bet, can I call that? OTOH, if i BET 2 pair on a 3 to a flush board, and they have the flush, many times, they _won't_ raise. I feel as if any aggression from me makes them gloss over, and they won't raise their good hands.

Thinking about it, this has happed a lot in my recent shallow downswing. I'll get something good (like a hand say, I just played. J7s in the SB, enough limpers to justify the call, flopped a pair of sevens, turned trips sevens, they're calling, i'm betting, and I lose to K7s, who called me down instead of reraising. On one hand, it's plenty nice to know they're saving me bets by not raising, but OTOH, it's kind of frustrating)

Quite simply, I'm not sure how to adapt to this.

-Alpha

[Shillx]

Fold to the turn raise. He is passive, the pot is small and you are drawing to the low end a one card straight. Call with KQ but this is a fold IMO. You just don't know what river card you are looking for, and will probably have to pay off a river 5 or 9 in case he has 2 pair.

Shill

[AlphaMeridian]

I don't know, isn't this weak tight? It feels like in general, I'd be folding to all kinds of monsters under the bed. Perhaps I shouldn't have posted a hand with this; I'm more interested in general advice.

-Alpha

[Bodhi]

It's weak-tight to fold against a good or average player, but against the most passive folding is correct when they bet or raise.

[HajiShirazu]

I would call the turn and fold the river UI.

[Luv2DriveTT]

You WANT the loose passives to call you down to the river with AK. For every time you loose in a situation like this, you will gain 3x as much when you win from some fool calling you down to the river with AK.

Consider it a blessing in disguise.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[srt19170]

[ QUOTE ]
You WANT the loose passives to call you down to the river with AK. For every time you loose in a situation like this, you will gain 3x as much when you win from some fool calling you down to the river with AK.

Consider it a blessing in disguise.


[/ QUOTE ]

Sklansky bucks.

The other thing to note is that if they won't punish you when they have good cards, that gives you the opportunity to chase with drawing hands.

Supposed you limped here with 89s. A good player holding AK is going to bet the flop, and you won't have the pot odds to continue. This guy will check, and you'll get a free draw at your gutshot.

-- Scott

[Bodhi]

Right, so you seem to know where you went wrong with this particular hand... I have seen loose-passives limp in with AA, so you never know what to expect. The general rule of thumb is that if a loose-passive bets into you or raises, you should exercise extreme caution unless you have a really awesome hand. Think about it. These players won't bet with TPTK, and they won't fold with bottom pair. If they have any hand ranging from mediocre to good they will just check and call; that's all they do, they do it 95% of the time. When they do bet or raise, it is such an anomaly that you must know something is up, something is drastically different. When the loose-passive bets or raises, expect two pair at the very least. A lot of the time you'll be up against a set, a straight or a flush. If your hand is not one of the very best then exercise some will power and fold; it's just what you have to do. Take it as a blessing. If you're playing against me and I bet into you or raise, I could have a small or medium pair, TPTK, a set, or nothing! All of that guess work is difficult and stressful, against these loose-passives your correct play is almost automatic, they make it easy for you. I still sometimes loose to them too, of course. If I have AJs and I put the loose-passive on KK or AA and an A hits, I just might bet into him and see what happens. If he raises, I fold. If he calls, I continue to bet. If all they ever do is call, then you can't put them on a hand when they call again. I hope this helps, good luck!

[Gravy (Gravy Smoothie)]

More likely than AK, his turn raise means JT or QT. Against passive players you can lay down top-pair-lowish-kicker when they raise you on the turn.

[Rah]

When the passive micro players starts raising the turn in a small pot, it's almost always wise to fold a single pair. 9 times out of 10, this move means two pair or better.