SSHE Book Club Discussion - Part Two: Preflop Concepts

[MEbenhoe]

In the chapter title "Using This Book" the authors write:
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Finally, we anticipate that some readers will concentrate most heavily on the preflop chapter, particularly the two preflop charts that we provide....We do not recommend that you do this. It is basically a waste of time....Understanding postflop concepts and play is far more essential to maximizing your win rate.

[/ QUOTE ]

I find this statement to be very true. The meat of this book is the next couple sections. However, because many people still have problems with their preflop play this is an important section to go over.

I'm going to treat this a little differently than most sections and not try to dig in too deep in this introduction, and instead throw it open to any questions there might be on the preflop advice given in SSHE.

Basically above all the important thing to keep in mind is that Tight and aggressive as always is the key to success in preflop play. Don't play too many hands, rarely cold call raises, and be aggressive with the hands you're going to play.

With that lets get the discussion going. What parts are troubling you or do you not understand? What do you possibly disagree with? What do you think are some strong concepts to take out of this section?

[shadow29]

I have trouble with listing A2s in EP as "play".

Anyone else turbomuck that garbage?

[theghost]

[ QUOTE ]
I have trouble with listing A2s in EP as "play".

Anyone else turbomuck that garbage?

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That's only recommended in the "loose" games table, correct? I have never been in a loose enough game to use it - "tight" recommendations suit my style, for the most part.

Some of the iffy stuff for me (in "tight") is "any 2 suited over 10 in EP," still not sure why JTs or QTs is a good idea from EP

[kevyk]

Miller recommends playing A2s from MP and LP in tight games.

[DonkeyKong]

there have been long threads devoted just to Ace-Rag-Suited from EP...

If you muck A2-suited, you are not giving up much (and you are not gaining much by playing it). If you play really well after the flop, it is worth playing these very marginal hands in a loose/passive game.

[Nagoo81]

The single thing that this book made its point well to me is about playing all pocket pairs for at least one bet (bigger pairs obviously raise). If you can limp with say, 33, and everyone limps and you hit the flop, you'll get some v v v nice action with that top pair.

Just like how Ron Popeil says to play pocket pairs: SET IT or FORGET IT!

I still am not 100% comfortable playing ATo and KJo in EP. I know they are better than average starting hands, but I need more practice before I can do so.

[theghost]

[ QUOTE ]
Miller recommends playing A2s from MP and LP in tight games.

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Right, and I play it there - but not from EP.

[kevyk]

Nope! There is a very good rationale behind playing a hand like A2s. In small stakes games, the greater number of players in each hand makes any suited hand much more valuable than its offsuit counterpart.

The reason you play A2s is that you will gain EV every time you flop a flush draw, and will also win a greater amount of the time you make top pair compared with A2o.
The presence of backdoor straight and flush draws will often turn -EV situations into +EV situations.

I do think that these are the first hands you should discard as the table gets more tight-aggressive.

[Patrick del Poker Grande]

[ QUOTE ]
I have trouble with listing A2s in EP as "play".

Anyone else turbomuck that garbage?

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm pretty quick to muck this hand unless the game is very loose/passive, which is actually a situation I've found myself in quite a bit recently. I'm all over AXs from whatever position if I expect the pot to not be raised. I may not like top pair, but a chance at a flush, 2-pair, or trips (or a decent straight draw depending on X) is worth the price of admission in these games.

[BusterFlush]

Playing A-X suited is a must in the loose low limit games. The key is you must know going in that if a flush draw or two pair are not flopped, you must get out of the hand. The discipline to make this fold consistently is the key.
Getting trapped playing A-X for high card value is a -EV play.