Commerce Final NL Event Report - comments on last hand please

[Scooterdoo]

Hi, guys. I decided to play the Friday tournament at the Commerce which was the
last event of the series. It was a $500 NL event and attracted a field of about
380 composed of a dozen or so of the big-named pros (Greenstein, Men the Master,
Vahedi, etc.), many local pros and lots of strong players. Anyway, I really debated
playing in this one because I was on my own on Saturday am (my wife was leaving
at 6am for the weekend) with the kids and would not have any sleep if I made it
far. I decided to give it a shot -- especially after my high money finish at the
Tuesday tournament -- I essentially tied for 2nd after a deal with the final 4.

FINAL HAND: We started with 40 tables or so and I'm down to the final 5 tables.
It's 2:30 in the morning, nine-handed, blinds are 400-800 with 75 ante. I'm UTG.
I won't go into much detail how I got this far other than to say that I had only
been in 4 major hands of note -- my AK beat a medium pair early on, my AK doubled
up on KQ, my AK sucked out KK about a half hour before to make me one of the bigger
stacks and on the very next hand my JJ lost to AK to bring me back down to average.
On this last hand I look down at ATo UTG. I hate this hand in early position,
but I only had 3-4 playable hands in the past hour or so and with the blinds just
rising I'm getting to a situation where I'll have to make a move. Plus I had stayed
at my chip position by making moves with marginal hands so this hand was looking
pretty good to me.

Anyway, perhaps I should have pushed (it wouldn't have mattered)
but I decided that a 2k bet could be enough to take down the pot and if I am raised
I could potentially get away from it depending on the circumstances (perhaps this
was my mistake). I get raised all-in by a late position player who I had seen
make some moves earlier on but he did seem fairly solid. I actually started with
him at my initial table. I have him covered by bit so it will cost me 4k or so
of my remaining 5.5k.

I was very, very tired at this point and was now realizing
that if I were to fold the hand and just survive another hour or so and just get
into the money (top 27 pay but 19-27 get about 1k and 10-18 don't get much more
than 2-3k, so the real money isn't until the final table) I was going to have
to spend the next day with no sleep watching my 3 kids -- which was a really grim
prospect. Anyway, from a poker perspective I was able to justify a call given
that I was getting about 2.5 on my money so the only hands that I was behind on
a call were AA, AK, AQ and AJ. I was well ahead (in terms of EV) of pairs under
T and was getting the right odds against TT-KK and great odds against A9 or broadway
cards. I'm not sure what I would have done if I didn't have the added incentive
of getting 5-6 hours sleep if I lost the hand, but the call seemed right given
all the factors.

He turns over QQ, so I did have just about the exact odds to
call, and of course an A didn't come. I pushed in my remaining chips blind to
a raise on the next hand when I'm in the BB and I go home -- and did get my 5-6
hours sleep and had a nice day with the kids! I learned a valuable lesson here
the hard way -- do not play in a tournament unless you are 100% committed to go
to the end and be sure that you have nothing planned in the am if you are playing
in one of these late night marathon events.

So what do you guys think about the
last hand? Do you throw AT away and hope to get a better opportunity really soon?
Do you take the shot and push? Do you like my raise? Once I get put to the test
do you make the call? Just curious and I think it could be an interesting discussion.

[SossMan]

ATo UTG?

Muck-a-doodle-doo.

[Scooterdoo]

Interesting. Even at just under 10x BB (with antes so it's even worse than the standard 10x rule) and an aggressive table where someone is usually raising a pot so if you don't go into a pot in the next orbit (almost 2k per orbit) you're starting to get pretty short-stacked and on subsequent orbits you're really getting desperate?

What is your playing standard from UTG in this situation nine-handed? Do you play medium pairs? If so, do you push? How small does the table need to get until you consider playing AT?

BTW, I would muck this hand in a minute with more breathing room or earlier on I would muck or limp. I just felt that my time was running out at this new level given my stack.

[SossMan]

I think some people are misunderstanding/misapplying the 10x rule. It doesn't mean that you go all in on your first playable hand (that would be more like the 4x or 5x rule). It simply means that if you play a hand, it's all in or nothing (maybe a stop and go if the situation presents itself).
If anything, I may tighten up more in EP at that stack level (7-15x) and loosen significantly in LP.
Until I'm under 5x or 6x, I don't think I would ever play ATo UTG at a full table. 5 or 6 handed, and I'll think about it with the right stack size (very big or very small).

The penalty for having a 8-20x stack is not being able to play as many hands since you cannot apply your skill on later streets.

best of luck,

sossman

[Scooterdoo]

Sure I understand the 10x rule. My point is that because I was at a bit under 10x with the new blinds (the level just increased) I would soon be at a point where I needed to start playing hands all-in from mid to late position, even if they weren't strong hands -- maybe not during the first orbit but probably the second. Also, the table was aggressive with many raised pots from early to mid position so if I let things go I was likely going to play a hand to a showdown. Given the table dynamics I was thinking that with a 2k raise I was most likely to get the pot uncontested or have one or two people call me versus someone going over the top all-in. So if I did get a few callers I would be acting early on the flop I can perhaps win by either hitting the flop (an A higher would probably have come over the top) or just make a bluff play if no high cards came. Anyway, that was my thinking at 2:30am. Perhaps not the best way to look at it. Normally I lay it down. Thanks for the advice!

[SossMan]

Well, your babysitting situation notwithstanding....

I would rather push w/ any two cards when folded to me in MP or LP than raise to 2k w/ ATo UTG.

-sossman

[JasonK]

I'd stay up all night for far less than the $1k you'd get sneaking into the money.

[Scooterdoo]

Not me, but we all have different standards!

[JasonK]

Hahaha so true. I'm poor though, $1k is my whole bankroll.

[zaxx19]

Yeah, congrats on playing so well your bankroll can turn down 1k for some sleep. I might muck this hand UTG, or I would definitely fold this hand after a reraise personally. This is a good example of a postion were I think Pot Odds (strictly speaking) maybe be a little bit overatted. UTG here I probably move in with 88 or better and AK suited perhaps. I raise with QQ or better and pray someone wants to reraise me with AK,AQ,AJ or some under pair. Is this a correct approach given the situation ??