Easy Street

[Tommy Angelo]

Full and foaming $15-30 at AJ's. There was this one guy in the game ...

The thing I appreciate about players like (I'll call him) Bob is that his very existence proves that anything is possible when it comes to how opponents might play. So best be ready for anything without wondering why, I figure.

In six hours, Bob folded before the flop maybe ten times, and he raised before the flop exactly zero times. Didn't matter if he had pocket aces or kings or AK or if someone raised in front of him or behind him. It just didn't matter. If it was before the flop, his choice was to call.

I had pocket jacks in the small blind when Bob open-limped from MP. All folded around to me. The big blind was a careful player who was currently unplumbed because I had recently check-called the flop, turn, and river, after flopping a set. (I didn't check-raise the river because there were a couple of possible straights and a three-flush on board.) He showed his called bluff on the river in order to see what I had called him with.

On this JJ hand, I saw him ready to raise before the flop from the big blind. Profile is that his raise from the big blind meant he had a legit raising hand, even off plumb. Let's say QJs at the very worst is what would pull his trigger here. And no way Bob was getting out for two cold if I raised and the BB made it three. So I just called one chip from the SB when it was my turn before the flop because I'd made a plan like I'd never made before which was to employ the old "check-call all the way down headsup no matter what the board is" except this time I'd call down two guys instead of one. I mean, maybe. But probably. I think. (No decision before its time.)

The big blind raised his option, Bob called, and I called.

The flop came A-7-6 twotone. I checked. The big blind bet. Bob called. I called.

So much for the kissing part.

The turn was a queen. I checked. The big blind checked, and while doing so, he said to me in his heavy accent, either "I can't beat you," or "I can't bet you." I wasn't sure which.

Bob bet the turn after being checked to which I took to mean that he had at least one pair. Bob is pretty straight up on the flop. With nothing he tends to checkfold or check behind. With something, he calls, and sometimes he bets. That was pretty much his deal on all streets, come to think of it. I didn't think he had a draw when he bet the turn here. But hell I don't know. It wasn't just his betting that was tough to get, it was that he gave up nothing with his body face hands head anything. He was like an avatar incarnate.

Bob could have had an ace on this hand and not raised on the flop. That much I know for sure from what I'd seen. But I was way done worrying about what Bob had. I knew all I was going to know, and it was enough, which was that I wanted to showdown my hand against Bob's hand like a stubborn stump.

I called Bob's turn bet and the big blind barely overcalled. He was quiet now, shaking his head. I put the BB on TT, 99, or 88, or maybe, but it didn't seem like it, KK.

The river was a ten. Final board: As-7h-6h, Qc, 10d.

Looking left I didn't think the river hit the BB. But I couldn't really be sure, and hell, I didn't really care. I had my action ready. Check. If the BB bet, I was calling him. If Bob bet, I was calling him too.

What happened was, the BB checked and Bob bet. I called. The BB got squinted and called. Bob turned over 7-10 for two pair, I mucked, and the big blind flung pocket nines while he said to me, "Your flush draw no good. I knew I had you beat."


Would Bob have bet the river with a hand worse than jacks? That to me was the only spot for me to really make some money on this hand the way it went down, if I got that answer right and acted accordingly. But I didn't know the answer. And I knew I would not know, before it even happened. That was one more reason for just going slow and hopefully getting to turn my hand over at the end. Bob was totally unreadable to me in some ways. On this hand I had no idea if he had me beat or not on the river, at the one moment when one full big bet rode on knowing. And Bob was supposedly the bad player.

Meanwhile, in case my hand beat Bob's, I was getting a predictable 2-1 on the river call itself, because the guy in the big blind was going to overcall with a hand worse than mine. And he was supposedly the good player.

But hey, it's just another river, the easy street, right?


Tommy

[Chief911]

Its stories like this that make me wish I had access to a good casino anywhere close. /sigh.

Nick

[SLEEPER]

Hi Tommy,

Out of curiousity, is Bob the type of player that would have called your bets/raises all the way with the 10? Do you feel that the long term expected value of playing this hand this way is profitable against a player like Bob?

One other thing.... having noticed that the BB was going to raise, would he change his mind if you raised before him? Would Bob ever fold to a 3-bet in this situation?

Thanks

[Paluka]

This is a horribly played hand from start to finish.

[Diplomatdcm]

Yep.

[Tommy Angelo]

"This is a horribly played hand from start to finish."

I agree. But who played it worse? The guy who open-limped with 10-7o? Or the guy who overcalled twice with pocket nines?

Tommy

[Diplomatdcm]

Tommy, is that your goal, not to suck as much as the next guy? You are much better than that, and it appears that you misplayed the hanbd early simply to make it easy later. I understand you do a lot of things according to your own ryme and reason, but I still think it sucks meta-game issues or not.
Dave

[mplspoker]

Tommy, I know you are well respected on here and stuff, but honestly this is a joke right?

All you are doing in this hand (is trying to let total fishes catch up - and extracting as little value out of your hand as possible.

You mentioned flopping a set heads up and just check calling the flop/turn/river - and then not raising the river b/c the flush and straights got there. Well if there was a flush and straight draws on turn why didn't you check raise?

Maybe you are capable of extracting more value through playing the way you do, but I think it is nearly impossible especially when it is not heads up.

Please explain this rationale to me Tommy, b/c I really don't understand..... or get it....

chuck

[Tommy Angelo]

"You mentioned flopping a set heads up and just check calling the flop/turn/river - and then not raising the river b/c the flush and straights got there."

What I meant was that if the scare card had not come, I would have check-raised the river. I did not mean to say that I thought he had actually made a straight or flush just because the scare card got there. I had no idea. But I did know that if he did make a hand that beat mine, he would probably reraise my checkraise on the river, and I would definitely call. But that is only a small part of why I did not checkraise.

With one modest pair, I thought he still might bet the river. But let's say he would check-behind half the time that he had a hand that he would call my river bet with. In that line, I lose a half a bet per trial, compared to betting out on the river.

Another consideration is how often he would call my checkraise on the river with one pair. To whatever degree he wouldn't, my non-check-raise on the river gains value.

But much of the time, enough of the time, I think, he would be drawing dead to my hand on the turn, which is partly why I did not checkraise the turn, and much of the time that he bluffed the turn, he would then go ahead and fire again on the river. He had not been trained yet. When he sees me just call with this hand, that's part of the training. That's another reason why I did not checkraise the turn or river. Ideally, eventually, if he adjusts to less bluffing, then I adjust a little bit faster, to less calling down with ace-high.

Another reason is that if he did make a hand that beat mine, and I just checkcall the river as if I was calling down with ace-high, which I'd already done a couple times when it was right, and then he shows his rivered flush or whatever and I muck like nothing happened, then I think it somehow adds to the general confusion, even though my hand is not seen.



Tommy

[Tyler Durden]

So uh, you never bet or raised w/ JJ? I hope beginners don't read your posts and take them as gospel. But maybe they do. B/c you know, they're like "well he has 1200+ posts and we all know # of posts equals poker knowledge and PLUS, he's the famous Tommy Angelo! People love to fellate him whenever he posts in this forum! Oh wait my turn to act....folded to me on the button, what do I have? Oh, JJ. Sounds good. Call!!!"