Vegas trip report (and a few hands)

[skp]

MBE and I just got back from Vegas (Bellagio).

I want to thank Ed Miller, Clarkmeister, and Duke for ensuring that we both had a lot of fun there. Thanks, guys.

We also met with Pokerbabe for lunch - pretty good Indian food at a place called Shalimar. Thanks, babe.

The poker was very good. I essentially played 30-60 the whole trip (which is a step up from my usual 15 or 20 limits). Overall, the game was not that much tougher at the 30 level. Anyway, I had good results winning about $4700 in 32 hours of play. It looked bleak on my first day when I was stuck $3700 in about 8 hours...gulp. Clarkmeister says that I was a scaredy-cat for not joining him in the 80 games. Screw him though...heh

Some hands (Hands 1, 2, and 3 all occurred when I was getting trounced on day 1):

Hand No. 1

Two limpers. I raise on the button with AA. A seemingly tight player (Natalie for you Vegas locals who might know her) 3 bets from the sb. I 4 bet and both opponents call.

Flop: KJ3 rainbow.

I bet, Natalie calls and others fold.

Turn is a blank.

I had a sinking and definite feeling that she had a set (as she would have no doubt raised with AK and perhaps even bet or raised with QQ to find out where I was at). But I had no table presence whatsoever at this time. Duke was in the game and could probably attest to that. So, I bet and of course got raised. I pay off and she shows JJ as expected. I should post this in the psychology forum. Why the hell I bet based on image considerations as opposed to the merits of the hand is a question to which I have no answer.

Hand 2

The guy to my right is just destroying the game. He is preflop raising liberally but he plays pretty good postflop. I 3 bet him with KhTh in late position and we take the flop heads-up.

Flop: A76 rainbow with no heart

He checkraises. I 3 bet (again, for no good reason other than I haven't played a hand in eons...no wonder I was getting trounced that session). He 4 bets. I lay down and he shows 54 offsuit. Swell.

When you are getting hammered, the vultures are all over the place I tell ya. But I simply refused to change tables or even seats. Stupid me I tell ya.

Hand 3

I have Qh5h in the bb. 5 or 6 callers.

Flop: 633 with two hearts. I bet. UTG raises. A seemingly good player coldcalls. I just call but keep an open mind as to either betting, checkcalling or checkraising the turn.

Turn: Queen

I check. Flop raiser bets. Good player calls. I checkraise. Flop bettor calls and now the good player 3 bets.

I muck.

River is a heart but I did well mucking on the turn as the good player showed 66. For some reason, that was the turning point to my session.

Hand 4

Mason has written about this before but the fact that Vegas has a 5 bet cap means that fewer hands get 4 bet preflop (i.e. with a 4 bet cap, there are more 4 betted hands preflop as the 4 bettor knows he can't be raised again). In Vegas, a 4 bet preflop is generally KK or AA. A 5 bet is almost always AA and sometimes KK. Of course, this is based on limited observation. If someone who plays the game regularly and says that it is not like that...well, I stand corrected.

In any case, on this hand, a tight playing woman raises UTG with KK. 2 coldcallers. I am on the button with AhQh and 3 bet. She 4 bets. I cap. Both blinds call and 6 of us see the flop.

Flop: K64 rainbow with no hearts. She bets. 2 callers. I muck. I would just about never have done that if Vegas had a 4 bet cap preflop.

Anyway, the board ends up K6464 and the woman manages to get in three bets with two opponents on the river. Her opponents had a 6 and a 4 respectively. She of course showed KK.

Does anyone think I had enough to call on the flop to try and make a backdoor straight?

Anyway, I think that Vegas should go to a 4 bet cap rule.

Hand 5

This one is just pure fun...very little strategy involved. I had Td9d in the bb. 5 way action no raise.

Flop: KdQdJd (Query: Is the only way you can flop the absolute unbeatable nuts and still be able to "improve" your hand on the turn or river?)

UTG (tight player) bets. 2 calls. Sb raises (if he didn't, I would have). Only me and UTG call (that was kind of weird as two guys who called the flop bet folded once sb raised. Sb was a local. So, I figured that maybe these folders knew him to be a rock and held a strong hand. That of course made me giddy...heh).

Turn is a 3 or something. Sb bets and I raise hoping that sb held the Ace high flush. UTG thinks and coldcalls. Sb calls. I now put UTG on AJ offsuit with the Ad.

River: Q

I was suddenly of course hoping that UTG had KQ. I bet, she folded and sb then checkraised. I 3 bet and sb called. He had 8d2d. I gather he was just waiting until the river to raise in case another diamond showed up...who knows...whatever...I hadn't flopped a straight flush in about 6 or 7 years.

Incidentally, my woes with Alaska Airlines continue. 2 hours late each way. I can't remember the last time that these guys took off on time.

Delmonico's with MBE, Clark and Duke. Still the best place in town for a steak.

I started reading Ed's book on the flight back. He just made the games a whole lot tougher. Damn I hate that guy.

I read Hellmuth's "Play poker like the pros" on the flight out. Man, I love that guy. Utter garbage. I forgot the book on the plane. Hope some guy finds it, memorizes the advice and shows up in the Party 15 games with a healthy bankroll.

Ciao

skp

[Diplomat]

Hey SKP,

West Jet.

-Diplomat

[skp]

Problem with WJ is that it's a charter. Thursday to Sunday. That's always a little too short of a stay for me. I can't get in enough poker then because I like my zzzzz too much. So, I usually go from Thursday to Tuesday which leaves me with very little choices for airlines. America west is one that I haven't tried yet though.

[Luke]

Nice report skp.

America west is one that I haven't tried yet though.

I flew them last year direct from New Jersey to Vegas.

They were on time both ways and there was nothing I can remember about the flight that was noteworthy one way or the other.

Give them a shot if you're really dissatisfied with your current airline.

Luke

[roy_miami]

[ QUOTE ]

Mason has written about this before but the fact that Vegas has a 5 bet cap means that fewer hands get 4 bet preflop (i.e. with a 4 bet cap, there are more 4 betted hands preflop as the 4 bettor knows he can't be raised again). In Vegas, a 4 bet preflop is generally KK or AA. A 5 bet is almost always AA and sometimes KK. Of course, this is based on limited observation. If someone who plays the game regularly and says that it is not like that...well, I stand corrected.


[/ QUOTE ]

I was in Vegas last week, saw the 5 bet cap twice. I did it once with QQ (against AK, won a huge pot) and I saw a guy 5 bet with 99 against AA he turned a 9 and caused a little tilt.

[danderso8]

[ QUOTE ]
In Vegas, a 4 bet preflop is generally KK or AA. A 5 bet is almost always AA and sometimes KK. ...

In any case, on this hand, a tight playing woman raises UTG with KK. 2 coldcallers. I am on the button with AhQh and 3 bet. She 4 bets. I cap

[/ QUOTE ]

If this is the assumption you are playing under, then why did you cap? You say yourself that you are most likely behind, and even if she has AK you are dominated. I'm not saying it's wrong to cap, just curious what the thought process was.

[ QUOTE ]
In any case, on this hand, a tight playing woman raises UTG with KK. 2 coldcallers. I am on the button with AhQh and 3 bet. She 4 bets. I cap. Both blinds call and 6 of us see the flop.

Flop: K64 rainbow with no hearts. She bets. 2 callers. I muck. I would just about never have done that if Vegas had a 4 bet cap preflop.

Anyway, the board ends up K6464 and the woman manages to get in three bets with two opponents on the river. Her opponents had a 6 and a 4 respectively. She of course showed KK.

Does anyone think I had enough to call on the flop to try and make a backdoor straight?

[/ QUOTE ]

You have 33:1 when it gets to you...if we assume KK and the other aces are already out, you have 4/45 to draw your jack (or ten) and 4/44 to draw your other one = 16/1980 or about 0.8% chance. One more bet is about 3% of the pot, so you would need to expect the pot to nearly quadruple by the end for it to be worth it (discounting the very slight possibility that you could draw running AA to beat the other set). Even with all that action preflop, that just aint gonna happen. good fold.



[ QUOTE ]
Flop: KdQdJd (Query: Is the only way you can flop the absolute unbeatable nuts and still be able to "improve" your hand on the turn or river?)


[/ QUOTE ]

You can also flop a lower straight flush where you hold the top card, say, 6Ts flop 789s, turn Js, river Qs...not sure if you were including all straight flushes or just the top one. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] This is the only way i know of to do it on BOTH the turn and the river.

-dan

[skp]

Re: The AhQh cap bet, some things that I considered:

1. She definitely does not have AK when she 4 bets. If there was a chance that she did, I would simply not cap

2. Given my hand, her most probable holding is KK.

3. If an Ace flops, I am not likely to run into AK in anyone's hand.

4. I should get an Ace high flop (without a King) about 15% of the time. BTW, that's the percentage I had in mind then. Maybe someone could work out the exact percentage of this. Anyway, 15% when I have 6 opponents. A cap can't be all that bad.

5. If I get an Ace high flop, she will have KK instead of AA on a 6:1 ratio. But she will probably bet her KK anyway. That's what people do in big pots (and probably correctly so).

6. On the other hand, if the flop comes all rags, this woman is a good enough player to try to checkraise me on the flop to try and limit the field. That would be a boon to me if the flop comes with one heart as I will simply check. This then gives me a cheap shot to make a backdoor flush or catch an Ace on the turn for free or on the river for hopefully just one big bet.

7. I don't wnat to be known as someone who only caps with AA.

Obviously, not all of these thoughts went through my head at the time the hand happened; many were ingrained already i.e. I didn't have to think about them but they played a part in my decision to cap.

Good find as to the T6 straight flush...heh.

[danderso8]

excellent reasons, all, and well explained. I especially like #6, as this is a two-steps-ahead reason. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Photoc]

[ QUOTE ]
This one is just pure fun...very little strategy involved. I had Td9d in the bb. 5 way action no raise.

Flop: KdQdJd (Query: Is the only way you can flop the absolute unbeatable nuts and still be able to "improve" your hand on the turn or river?)


[/ QUOTE ]

In this hand, you had the nuts, but 109d is not the absolute unbeatable nuts with KQJd on board. That would be the A10d. But I know what you're saying and btw, nice hand! Sounds like you had a blast.

[ QUOTE ]
Anyway, the board ends up K6464 and the woman manages to get in three bets with two opponents on the river. Her opponents had a 6 and a 4 respectively. She of course showed KK

[/ QUOTE ]
Why this guy would cold call 5 bets preflop with 6/4 is beyond me. That's just like asking someone to take your wallet.

[Stork]

Photoc, you may not be aware, but a standard deck of 52 cards contains only one Ten of Diamonds.