Bellagio 4/8 AA

felson · #1 10-24-2004, 10:20 PM

Past midnight on a weeknight. I am up 150, the game is very loose, and my image is good. UTG raises, an aggressive Asian kid who I have yet to get a handle on. Not sure if he is TAG or just LAG. A bunch of cold callers. I have AA in the SB. I make it three bets, and 6 or 7 of us see the flop.

Flop is JTx rainbow. I bet and it's called around to the button, who raises. Button is awful, a calling station who has been bleeding chips and changed seats 15 minutes ago to change his luck.

Question: 3-bet here? Or flat call and try to check-raise turn?

I three bet and, surprisingly, get it heads up. He doesn't cap.

Turn blank. Bet-call.

River Q. I check, planning to call.

Comments? (I am very aware that I should have bet the river, so no need to chew me out on that one.) [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

MarkL444 · #2 10-24-2004, 10:50 PM

The pot is big, do what you must to win it. I like the three bet. Even if you are behind JT or something you are still getting it heads up in case a blank pairs giving you Aces up. Its also pretty easy for him to have an OESD or pretty much any J here.

And bet the river. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Alobar · #3 10-24-2004, 10:56 PM

bet the river [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Well, The pot is pretty damn huge, so you prolly wanna the most you can to win it. If the button is capable at all of taking the free card, then you have to 3 bet now, leaving everyone in the hand and giving them a free card on the turn would royally suck. A 3bet on the flop prolly only knocks people out you want calling anyway. Because anyone with a piece of this board calls 2 more.

If you are unsure of what the button will do on the turn, 3 bet now.

dogmeat · #4 10-24-2004, 11:48 PM

Absolutely 3-bet the flop.

Why assume the Q helped? Bet the river for value.

Dogmeat [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

felson · #5 10-25-2004, 04:32 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Absolutely 3-bet the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay, why? Because you are afraid button will take a free card? Or some other reason.

I would absolutely flat call the flop and check-raise the turn if I knew that button would bet it. Because I know that 3-betting the flop fails to protect my hand from gutshots.

But I had no idea if button would follow through, so I decided to jam the pot instead. I am just wondering what the standard play is. So far people are saying the risk of having the turn checked through means I should 3-bet. Except for ecooke.

SCfuji · #6 10-25-2004, 01:08 AM

bet the river.

ecooke · #7 10-25-2004, 01:19 AM

The pot is huge from the flop on so you have got to adjust your strategy. Everything from the flop on is miserable poker.

With 6 players in for three bets PF there are 18 SB in the pot when the flop hits the table. Keep in mind that you make your money when your opponents make a mistake so leading out cannot be correct - even a two outer will correctly call a single bet. That said, once the action reaches the button there are 23 SB in the pot and his raise makes it 25 SB. Even with your 3-bet from the Small Blind, any opponent with as little three outs (and probably 2 outs with implied odds) will still correctly call.

That said, I’d look to check-call the flop with the intention of a turn c/r (ideal since the Button is the likely bettor). In this situation there will be approx 12 BB in the pot on the Turn and your successful c/r will cause those chasing four outs or less to make a definite mistake by calling. That means the gut shots straights and pocket pairs searching for trips are now paying you instead of the other way around. Value bet the river.

Alobar · #8 10-25-2004, 11:12 AM

[ QUOTE ]
The pot is huge from the flop on so you have got to adjust your strategy. Everything from the flop on is miserable poker.

With 6 players in for three bets PF there are 18 SB in the pot when the flop hits the table. Keep in mind that you make your money when your opponents make a mistake so leading out cannot be correct - even a two outer will correctly call a single bet. That said, once the action reaches the button there are 23 SB in the pot and his raise makes it 25 SB. Even with your 3-bet from the Small Blind, any opponent with as little three outs (and probably 2 outs with implied odds) will still correctly call.

That said, I’d look to check-call the flop with the intention of a turn c/r (ideal since the Button is the likely bettor). In this situation there will be approx 12 BB in the pot on the Turn and your successful c/r will cause those chasing four outs or less to make a definite mistake by calling. That means the gut shots straights and pocket pairs searching for trips are now paying you instead of the other way around. Value bet the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is a pretty horrible way to play this hand. Sure you cant protect your hand at all with a flop bet, but checking is just plan WRONG. A c/r is only going to work if you know the bet will come from LP, what do you do when the guy immediatly to your left bets? what do you do if it gets checked through?

If you are going to not bet the flop, then you shouldnt have 3 bet preflop so you could keep the pot small and bet into UTG so he raises. But thats a mistake too, because you are giving up HUGE amounts of EV by not 3 betting pre flop.

Fat Nicky · #9 10-25-2004, 11:37 AM

[ QUOTE ]
That said, I’d look to check-call the flop with the intention of a turn c/r

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't like this play after 3-betting pre-flop and first to act. Too many things can go wrong.

1. it gets checked through.
2. someone in EP bets.

The way hero played the hand worked out best.

djoyce003 · #10 10-25-2004, 02:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The pot is huge from the flop on so you have got to adjust your strategy. Everything from the flop on is miserable poker.

With 6 players in for three bets PF there are 18 SB in the pot when the flop hits the table. Keep in mind that you make your money when your opponents make a mistake so leading out cannot be correct - even a two outer will correctly call a single bet. That said, once the action reaches the button there are 23 SB in the pot and his raise makes it 25 SB. Even with your 3-bet from the Small Blind, any opponent with as little three outs (and probably 2 outs with implied odds) will still correctly call.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you make money when they make mistakes...why not three bet it in the hopes that they will fold potential draws or other things incorrectly? Also, isn't it better to give them 10-1 odds rather than infinite odds?