Caught the straight when semi bluffing. Action...?

cianosheehan · #1 09-30-2004, 07:56 AM

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 max, 4 handed)

Button ($9.25)
Hero ($58.41)
BB (Villain) ($37.45)
UTG ($15)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls $0.50, Button folds, Hero raises to $1, BB (Villain) calls $0.50, UTG calls $0.50.

Flop: ($3) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets $2.5, Villain calls $2.50, UTG folds.

Turn: ($8) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $1, Villain calls $1.

River: ($10) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)


Hero??? 

Would you play any differently up to this point?

Cannes · #2 09-30-2004, 08:23 AM

woa!
would I play it differently? YES SIR!!
raise preflop with Q9o from the sb??? YIKES
I would complete, but I wouldn't like it.
bet the pot with a missed flop?? NO WAY
check fold!
then bet only $1 on the turn?? huh? What kind of consistency is this? ok you've picked up an OESD, check/call a reasonably small bet.
River: Your money card!
man what a suckout you pulled. I just hope for you, that your opponent isn't slowplaying a boat and taking your intire stack. Good luck.

cianosheehan · #3 09-30-2004, 08:34 AM

Lol

ok..keep in mind this is Party Nl 25 six max! Not only could Q9 easily be the best hand between myself and two opponents, but I quite regularly do little bluffs like this, to both steal on the flop (hence my 2.5 bet) or to get some action going. I guess its just the way I approach the game. Any back-action and I am out of there. I saw the turn for cheap, and the river for even cheaper. The only thing I was not sure about was the size of my turn bet. Maybe it should have been bigger. But I didnt want to get a big re-raise if, say I bet $2 or more.

Bez · #4 09-30-2004, 08:37 AM

On the turn I'd bet the pot. To semi-bluff successfully you need to bet enough so that your opponent will fold a hand that is currently ahead of you. Betting $1 here won't get a fold from any kind of hand.

Piz0wn0reD!!!!!! · #5 09-30-2004, 08:44 AM

[ QUOTE ]
woa!
would I play it differently? YES SIR!!
raise preflop with Q9o from the sb??? YIKES
I would complete, but I wouldn't like it.
bet the pot with a missed flop?? NO WAY
check fold!
then bet only $1 on the turn?? huh? What kind of consistency is this? ok you've picked up an OESD, check/call a reasonably small bet.
River: Your money card!
man what a suckout you pulled. I just hope for you, that your opponent isn't slowplaying a boat and taking your intire stack. Good luck.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dont listen to this guy.... hes weak tight. Looks fine, but i would bet more or just give up on the turn. Personally i would check/call w/ correct pot/implied odds for teh draw. River: if teh villan is a HUGE bluffer, try to squeez one out, otherwise bet out for sheezle.

cianosheehan · #6 09-30-2004, 09:55 AM

When I hit my straight, I thought that Villain probably thought I was just trying to bluff him off the pot, and the pathetic turn bet was backing this up. I thought if he had any hand (and at this stage I was sure he had something), he may call a big "bluffing" bet. I delayed for a few seconds, and raised him all in for $30+ into a pot of approx $10. After a second or two he called, and showed JQ, three Jacks with Queen kicker.

I guess in this case the turn bet was beneficial in giving me this opportunity, not to mention that not once did he raise me. (FPS!)

thoughts?

amoeba · #7 09-30-2004, 10:20 AM

you got lucky. You had a gutshot on a paired board at the turn.So you had 4 outs assuming he doesn't hold JT which is a common holding. I don't think his lack of raise on the turn was that bad a play. I would have popped you back but thats just me.Your $1 bet tells you nothing about your opponent. Lets say you played the same way at the turn, but the river didn't complete your gutshot, how do you play now? Fire another one on the river? check fold the river? For that reason, I don't like the $1 bet. you have no folding equity, you have to fold to any raise, and if villain just calls but river misses, you are still stuck.The only function of the bet seems to be a blocking bet on the turn hoping that your gutshot hits on the river.

It would have been funny if he turned over JT instead of JQ.

poolshark · #8 09-30-2004, 02:45 PM

I see all the points being made about the $1 bet on the turn. It is definitely a wrong move for the reasons that people mentioned - folding equity etc.
But thinking on an nth level - it might not have been that bad. I am not sure how well I would be able to explain this - This is a strange charasteristics of a low limit NL table - some players just LOVE to keep you in and see you betting. That was the villain's problem. He might have thought - you have a good hand - like a pair and you don't think he has the trips. the fact that you bet the $1 on turn - probably says that now you are checking to be sure that he has trips or not - so he does the reverse - tell you he 'doesn't' have the trips - by not raising - remember he still thinks you have a pair or PAIR (pun!) - so he sees no danger of letting you bet and go for your '2' outer. Little does he know that he paid respect to the wrong guy - and whoa - it worked.

So nutshell - I like the play if you know he has trips and puts you on a pair - hence he doesnt want you to fold - but would rather have however little he can squeeze out of your bluff bet or second best bet. Turns out - that 'little' was your whole stack! and yes - he didnt even take it!

GOOD JOB

Chuckster · #9 09-30-2004, 11:58 AM

[/ QUOTE ]

Dont listen to this guy.... hes weak tight. Looks fine, but i would bet more or just give up on the turn. Personally i would check/call w/ correct pot/implied odds for teh draw. River: if teh villan is a HUGE bluffer, try to squeez one out, otherwise bet out for sheezle.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. In these short handed games you need to switch it up and sometimes raise with iffy hands (maybe even garbage if you are in the right position against the right player) You can not just sit there and wait for the monsters.

I like the pre-flop raise, I like the bet on the flop. At first glance I hated the small bet on the turn, but considering what the villian had, this small, undersizd bet might have scared him, or not made him raise for fear of getting you out. I think if you bet strong on the turn, he might make a big raise on you and then what?? Sometimes, the suspicious looking weak bet on the turn can benefit you, although I know I would have likely bet 5 on the turn.

schwza · #10 09-30-2004, 10:43 AM

as others have pointed out, don't raise Q9 from the SB. if for some reason you're going to raise, don't min raise. the only way this raise is a good idea is if you think that everyone has too much of a tendency to limp-fold and that you can steal their limps. this is almost never the case in NL 25.

i like the flop bet. i bet into almost all paired boards - it's just too hard for someone to call you without trips, and players are too reluctant (IMO) to bluff-raise.

turn - i never make a weak bet like that. brunson says it explicitly in s/s: "i never make a post-oak bluff," which apparently means min-betting. it's generally frowned upon.

river - pushing worked out well, but i'd be more inclined to believe this guy has a 7 than a J. i think either is likely to flat call the flop, but a J is more likely than a 7 to put in a decent raise on the turn. that didn't happen, and there are 3 unseen 7's compared to 2 J's, so i'd assume a 7 is most likely. to extract a crying call, i'd have bet 4 or 5 and called any raise.