I done been check-raised on the river again...

[JinX11]

You go trying to value bet and *wham*! Should these be easy folds for me?

Hand 1:
Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">SB bets</font>, BB folds, UTG folds, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP2 folds, SB calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, SB calls.

River: (6.50 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">SB raises</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 10.50 BB
<font color="green">Main Pot: 10.50 BB, between Hero and SB.</font>


Hand 2:
Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls $1 (All-In), MP1 calls, Hero calls, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB completes, <font color="CC3333">BB raises</font>, MP1 calls, Hero calls, SB calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(5 players, 1 all-in)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, MP1 checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, SB folds, BB calls, MP1 calls.

Turn: (5.75 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(4 players, 1 all-in)</font>
BB checks, MP1 checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB folds, MP1 calls.

River: (7.75 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(3 players, 1 all-in)</font>
MP1 checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 11.75 BB
<font color="green">Main Pot: 1.25 BB, between UTG+1, MP1 and Hero.</font>
<font color="green">Pot 2: 10.50 BB, between MP1 and Hero.</font>

[challenger84]

Hand 1: Don't even think about folding here.

Hand 2: You only have to be right 1 in 10 to call here, so make the crying call.

[JinX11]

I guess part of the question then becomes 'Should I check behind?' In both hands, I 'knew' the other guy was drawing to a flush. Everything about the hands screamed so....

I do hate asking another 'value bet' question, though. In the past, I most likely would have checked behind.

[MAxx]

nope, don't get back to that habbit... you will leave money out on the table.

[challenger84]

No, don't check behind in either. You will be called down by a worse hand much more often than you will be check raised. You cannot always assume that a scary river card completed someone's draw, or else you will be missing a ton of value bets.

[IndieMatty]

Im going against the grain, I'm checking behind in Hand #2. Dude's a calling station for a reason.

[challenger84]

nonononononononononononononononono

if he's a calling station, all the more reason to value bet. He could have 88, A4, Q2, 910, J10, 22.... or any number of other hands that calling stations call with (hence the name) because they are scared to death of being bluffed.

[MoreWineII]

I think this value bet is entirely opponent-dependent.

Hnad 1 is a cinch bet.

[MAxx]

it does look like in both hands villains flush draw completes, but IMO you cannot automatically assume this to be the case.

Hand One: Good value bet, easy call of raise.

Hand Two: Thinner value bet, but still decent. I would definitely consider folding here to the river c/r.