Party NL25 and variance...

[Snoogins47]

Hey there, I'm fairly green to Party NL (played a lot of similar stakes home games, and some among other sites)

I'm in the typical "wtf, I keep getting sucked out on" mode that many people seem... and I know, keep the faith, long session etc. I've been confident in my plays every time, etc. I'm not here to rant, to pray for advice, etc..

My question is simple... what kind of variance and swings do you consistent winners see at Party NL25 and NL50, specifically when four-tabling?

I hear a lot of stories about people who talk about how soft the game is and how they rarely have a losing session...

And obviously, I've got a losing session in the makings right now ;P Just a curiousity, to see what kind of swings are "normal," and if anybody could post stats about these things or whatnot... Thanks all, appreciate the help.

[Fnord]

The full table game used to be far softer before the 6 max tables came. I clearly remember 3 and 4 way all-ins against full stacks with crap not being uncommon.

That being said, a -10 buy-in swing isn't uncommon.

[RPatterson]

[ QUOTE ]
The full table game used to be far softer before the 6 max tables came. I clearly remember 3 and 4 way all-ins against full stacks with crap not being uncommon.

That being said, a -10 buy-in swing isn't uncommon.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do the fishier players swim at the 6 max now?

[GimmeDaWatch]

Ya, I think the full tables are less soft now, though still very beatable. I remember when I began playing them last year being in a state of shock at how terrible and crazy alot of the players were. Anyway, I won mostly, but of course its incredibly easy to lose your stack at those tables, and I recall losing my stack 5 times in one day once. The reality of having very bad often aggressive players is that they're gonna suck out on you sometimes. But yes, I did have a downswing once of a little over 10 buy-ins.

[Snoogins47]

I needed some reassurance, I think ;P

Downswings are one thing... but dropping money left and right on your first attempt at a new game/limit/etc... that can be disheartening. It's kinda ironic: at games I play often, I'm almost zenlike, almost TOO comfortable with suckouts, etc. Very longterm.

But whenever I try something new, I have to fight my brain's urges, and those urges are to be horribly results oriented.

Note: The play at the six max tables is ridiculous. Average table had one or two tighter players, 3 maniacs, and myself.

I couldn't believe the action floating around those tables. Sad that middle handed games like that are by far my weakpoint, and always have been
(I can handle myself well heads up or three way, and when there's nine+ people around the table, I excel... when a few people get up though, is when I start floundering... can't quite get the hang of re-valuing hands, etc. etc.)

Maybe I'll dedicate some time to getting the hang of this six max nonsense, as these would just HAVE to be intensely profitable.

[GimmeDaWatch]

A "new game" meaning you always used to play the full ring games? Ive played the 6 max tables a little, and it does take some getting used to. For one thing, b/c alot of hands are heads up or 3 way, youre going to get bluffed at an swful lot, and that fact coupled with the blinds coming around more often is going to grind away at your stack alot quicker than playing 9 or 10 handed. I still play Stars alot, and the Party players are FAR more inclined to try and push you out of pots and make closer to pot sized bets when they bluff alot of the time, but that also makes them easier to trap. Also, the 50 BB buy-in makes you pot-committed far easier, and its the decent/not great hands I have that give me some trouble, as I dont want to get pot-committed calling largish bets with a pair of Kings/jack kicker and the like. Definitely takes some getting used to, but I think if you hang in there in 10-20K hands you should see things turn around. You using Pokertracker, by the way?

[Zag]

[ QUOTE ]
(I can handle myself well heads up or three way, and when there's nine+ people around the table, I excel... when a few people get up though, is when I start floundering... can't quite get the hang of re-valuing hands, etc. etc.)

[/ QUOTE ]

I am totally with you there. I feel that my best game is 3-way, with heads up and 4-way in a close tie for second. I also can play well on a full table, as long as I leave when I am feeling impatient (which I almost always have the discipline to do). However, 5 to 7 players seems to mystify me. I never seem to beat that game.

I think it is because I use two very different skills. In the full game, I am just patient, I wait for good cards, and I pound with them. There is always somebody who catches well enough to come along, and it makes up for the few times that I have a very good hand but someone else has the nuts.

In the short-handed games, I am basically playing the players, and my cards are much less important. I shift gears well and seem to be able to keep my opponents off balance consistantly.

But in the middle games, either I run into an aggressive player who keeps pushing me off my middling hands, or I get a good hand, bet, and win just the blinds. I can't seem to take advantage of the over-aggressive players like I can in the short games, because there is too often someone else playing along, as well, who likely has a real hand.

Any advice at all is appreciated. Does anyone find these games to be their strength?

[GimmeDaWatch]

Out of curiosity Snoogins, how many buy-ins are you down?

[SpiderMnkE]

I had a 40 minute stretch once where I lost 3.5 buyins.

I took 3 2/3 outer beats in a row for stacks. That didn't phase me... because I knew I was getting my money in with the best of it. So I guess I can imagine that happening 3 times in a row. Haha... that would certainly be crappy.

I guess it will happen at some point... but it can't happen that often.

I just hope it doesn't happen right off the bat when I jump to the $50 games this week.

[Wayfare]

The variance is high. The $50 games can be just as easy as the $25's although I have met some tricky players. Since you have such a wide range of tables to play at, there really is no reason to sit with the ones who know how to play.

I suggest that you play fewer tables at the $50 until you get your multitable system adjusted. Since I play primarily for relaxation, I still only play two at once. Three tires me out, and four is just too much for me to play well.