Building big multiway pots in NL..

[AZK]

Recently I've been moving back and forth between NL and limit and I've found games where it's 6 limpers to me in LP. For the sake of changing it up every once in a while and for value, I will occasionally raise drawing hands like low PP or JTs to build a decent sized pot, this seems to work fine in limit but I haven't tried it in NL. I have a feeling this is one of those plays that will not work well in NL but I wanted to hear what others thought. I also imagine this would be a better play in deep stack NL compared to the Party structure.

So in a game with blinds of 2-5 NL, if there were 5 or 6 limpers to me in LP with a good hand (i.e. AKs, AA, KK etc..), I'd make it $80 to go or something of that nature, to cut down on my opponents and take control, but with a small pair or JTs, I'd more inclined to only raise it $20 and have 6 of us take a flop for $20....I realize this won't work since people will begin to realize what a raise means from me depending on how much I raise. Yet, I still feel like building a pot with a decent drawing hand at a table that is very loose preflop will increase the amount of money that drawing hands make in LP. Does this concept equally apply to both NL and limit? Or do people just come in for their standard raise regardless of their hand since limpers won't know whether the flop has hit you or not? If you wanted to build pots with drawing hands in LP could you just raise to $20 occassionally with powerhouse hands in order to avoid being read? Is all of this just a recipe for disaster? Should I stick to either limping or raising and not somewhere in between in the hopes of building a pot? Thoughts?

[AJo Go All In]

yeah i sometimes make a small raise after limpers with something like 66, 89s etc. observant players know what i'm doing, but i generally don't care.

[AZK]

So then won't they make a play at you pre-flop or on the flop? Since it's safe to say you have more speculative drawing hands then monster hands, if a certain % of the time you did the same thing with a monster hand than they wouldn't be able to play back at you as much, no?

[AJo Go All In]

might someone make a play at the pot preflop, sure, if this starts to happen then adjust accordingly.

make a play at me on the flop? i'm not sure i follow, we're talking about a multi-way situation where i'm trying to make a big hand and double up, not steal the pot with 7-high from 6 limpers.

[TStoneMBD]

if youre playing in a game filled with weak players who limp with garbage then raising with decent hands on the button punishes them for this. if you make a habit out of raising limpers you should try to conceal when you really do have a hand, but if you succeed at doing this you should do well in the long run.

[AZK]

Obviously. I'm playing in a game that is loose preflop but tightens up postflop...it's deepstack so players limp A LOT but play pretty well after the flop. What I'm saying is a raise with JTs from LP after 6 limpers is a much different raise than with AA...observant players will recognize that you are trying to build a pot with a drawing hand rather than playing with a monster and will play back at you. I was curious if people routinely build pots in NL the way you do in limit or if they just limp and hope to hit the flop...

[TStoneMBD]

i also play in a game where players play way too many hands preflop but play fairly well postflop. for me personally, building pots with hands near the button isnt one of my strong points so i try to avoid it. i think i end up leaking money by doing this. however, alot of players will play this way and it works well if done correctly.

[schwza]

why would you want to build a pot with a drawing hand in NL? if you have a hand like 66, a lot of your EV comes from the implied odds of putting in a small amount relative to stack sizes. if you put in a 5xbb raise instead of limping, you need to win 5x as much when you hit, but that's tough cause the stacks aren't any bigger. i guess you're more likely to get all-in on the flop or the turn, which will make it easier/more profitable to play against draws.

i see where it makes sense in limit - if you build a huge pot and then flop an open-ender, you'll get calls from people with middle pair and whatnot and play a big multiway pot with your draw. but in no limit, the bets will be around the size of the pot, and if that's $120 instead of $20, you'll get fewer callers, not more.

somebody wanna explain this pot-building idea more?

[TStoneMBD]

i dont like to build pots preflop with hands like 66 because they are so hard to play postflop and you are usually just throwing your money away. drawing hands are hit or miss, but you can at least flop a decent pair so you have some showdown value. if im going to build pots i like to do it with hands that are easy to play postflop. If i dont think anyone has a dominating hand out there ill raise with kj, kts, at, 88s+.

[hectorjelly]

From time to time I like to make a raise in position with low suited connectors. I will win a large proportion of these hands on the flop, and from time to time I hit a well hidden monster. I dont think hands like 23s or 45s suited are that profitable (for me anyway) with a lot of limpers, Im not at all comfortable drawing to a 5 high flush 5 handed!

Its also worth it to increase the range of your raising hands if all you are doing is raising preflop with AA/KK/AK.