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#1
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Well, let\'s see..I didn\'t learn a damn thing from Andy\'s 88 post
Party 15-30
Loose player calls (?) from the cut-off. Button (whose play I didn't really have much of a read on at the time) raises. sb folds. I call with red Aces. 3 way action. Flop: AQ2 all spades I checkraise and 4 bet the flop with the cut-off merely calling all bets (i.e button and I are doing the betting and raising). turn: 3s I check (?). Cut-off bets. Button and I call. River: Qd I check. Cut-off bets. Button raises. I 3 bet. Cut-off calls $60 more. Button caps. We both call. I lose. Not a bad beat story but the title of the thread gives away the result and in any event, I wouldn't be posting it if I won with Aces full..heh. Questions to ponder: 1. Preflop smoothcall 2. Turn check 3. Over-aggressive on the river? |
#2
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Re: Well, let\'s see..I didn\'t learn a damn thing from Andy\'s 88 post
[ QUOTE ]
1. Preflop smoothcall 2. Turn check 3. Over-aggressive on the river? [/ QUOTE ] 1. Not with 3 way action and out of position. Cap and lead. Get action from another set or A...or *gulp* flush. 2. Turn check and call is fine. You're behind any spade now. 3. You have a full boat. Not capping 4-bets here would be insane. If you were headsup and had unlimited raising, I'd go to about 7 or 8 bets before relenting. You'll see AQ, Q2, Q3, 22 and 33 often enough that capping is definitely correct. Garland |
#3
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Re: Well, let\'s see..I didn\'t learn a damn thing from Andy\'s 88 post
Hi skp,
When you say [ QUOTE ] Loose player calls (?) from the cut-off. [/ QUOTE ] ...I assume you mean open-limps. 1) In evaluating in what position would best tie the loose-player on post-flop (in front of the pfr or behind) I realized for me it doesn't matter......because I can't definitively determine the best way to trap the loose-player post-flop because I can't determine on what street the pfr may raise me. In other words, I don't want to lose the loose-player post-flop. However, since you cr-ed the flop I guess you figured: A) you weren't going to lose the loose player or B) If you did you would make it up vs. the pfr. If you figured calling 2 cold on the flop wouldn't lose the loose player then I would just 3 bet pre-flop. 2) Turn-check: I don't like it. If the loose-player were good -- I might check. No reason to fear a flush yet. Plus the obvious outs if you're raised. 3) It's Party and it's not NL. I believe a worse full-house or weirdly played flush is as likely to raise you as quads. The river 3 bet seems fine. I'll cut off my clicking finger before I fold to the 4th bet with Aces full on Party. It's the third nut but I'll make the crying call. Regards, Jamie |
#4
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Re: Well, let\'s see..I didn\'t learn a damn thing from Andy\'s 88 post
[ QUOTE ]
2) Turn-check: I don't like it.... No reason to fear a flush yet. [/ QUOTE ] The flop was all spades, and three players capped the flop. You don't think a fourth spade is reason to fear a flush? You've got to be kidding. I think there's reason to fear a flush if the turn had been a diamond. my 2 cents. Eric |
#5
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Re: Well, let\'s see..I didn\'t learn a damn thing from Andy\'s 88 post
Hi Eric,
Yeah, for the turn....I obviously didn't read that correctly as the fourth spade on the board. [I was thinking about it afterward, and even if there had been only two spades on the flop there's at least reason to fear the flush on the turn. But I think I would still bet.] Regards, Jamie |
#6
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Re: Well, let\'s see..I didn\'t learn a damn thing from Andy\'s 88 post
The only different line is betting the flop and going for 3 bets. But you got 4 bets as it is (I'd want 4 bets every time here). Checking the turn is prudent. Capping the river is a must. Other than losing to quads (or was it a steel wheel?), how could you have this hand any other way?
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#7
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Re: Well, let\'s see..I didn\'t learn a damn thing from Andy\'s 88 post
My thought on the river when the button raised was "geez, is it AQ or QQ (2 to 1 on a bayesian analysis) or does *he* have the slowplayed AK with the King of spades?" But I was worried a little. Nevertheless, I also thought that the boys would be wondering where I parked my purse if I were to just call his raise rather than 3 bet. So, I 3 bet...heh...but I didn't really like it.
If this were a live game and cut-off had folded when I 3 bet, I definitely would have just called and not raised the button's 4 bet. |
#8
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oh yeah...quad QQ isn\'t the nuts...
4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] is the immortal nuts. But I'd still cap the river regardless [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img].
Garland |
#9
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Re: Well, let\'s see..I didn\'t learn a damn thing from Andy\'s 88 post
If button has A-Q he's going to raise the river, probably putting you on pocket deuces. His pre-flop 3-bet says A-Q more than it says Q-Q too. So I don't think you were wrong to 3-bet the river.
Pre-flop, I prefer to raise here against two opponents, especially a late position limper and a button raiser who going to think I see him as a stealer anyway. I don't think you give away that much in deception by 3-betting in that situation. On the turn, I'd have to put the cut-off on the king of spades. Ergo check. |
#10
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Re: Well, let\'s see..I didn\'t learn a damn thing from Andy\'s 88 post
I agree about the preflop play. My initial thought was that I didn't want to lose the cut-off. But that was a wasted thought. Hardly anyone folds even for two bets cold once they have voluntarily entered the pot. And this guy certainly would not have folded. Incidentally, he had Ks4c.
The other disadvantage of not raising preflop (and raising on the flop or turn) is that it would ironically make my hand seem stronger than Aces. In other words, on a flop of say T83 (or pick any such flop), my hand postflop might seem weaker to the button raiser had I 3 bet preflop i.e. he might put me on AK. |
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