Flopped a set of tens, but did I play it right?

[Fianchetto]

$12/$24 B&M

Loose game with probably one other tight player in it. 3-4 soft spots (including UTG+1) that play too loose preflop, they have a decent amount of aggression postflop and a keen unwillingness to lay down a hand. Another thing about UTG+1 is even though he is too loose preflop, I haven't seen him raise the expensive streets without a solid hand. I'm a little sketchy on the details as this was a few days ago.

UTG+1 open raises, he is cold called in 4 spots, SB mucks, and I call in the BB with T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img],

Who reraises here? I usually will 3-bet with TT if I can narrow the field and/or get position. In this pot I wasn't getting anybody out, and its unlikely I would win unimproved, so I just called. With pocket jacks I probably 3-bet.

6 players (6BB)

Flop: K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

I check, UTG+1 bets, call, raise, fold, fold, I 3-bet, the remaining players call.

4 players (12BB)

Turn: Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I bet, UTG+1 raises, one cold call behind him, and I call.

3 players (18BB)

River: 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

I check, UTG+1 bets, MP caller, and I call.

How did I do?

[Frogger]

Raise the turn. I'm putting the agressor on a KQs, meaning he has top 2 pair. That's why he might have raised you on the turn where he thought his money card dropped.

The caller on the end I think had a flush draw but picked up a small piece (maybe queens) so he decided the pot odds were there to call one bet, not 2 at the end.

I think your hand was good. However, the agressors raise on the turn could ALSO mean he picked up broadway but it would be unlikely since he bet out on the flop (or was he the raiser).

Let us know.

[steveyz]

UTG+1 did raise pre-flop so he could very well have been betting with AJ on that flop.

[Fianchetto]

Frogger,

Yes, UTG+1 was the preflop raiser, he bet the flop, called two more cold, then he raised me on the turn.

I did think about raising the turn, but since he had raised preflop, I had to conisder that he might have a bigger set or broadway. The only hand I can really see him raising with preflop and on the turn, that I'm beating, is KQ.

So if my math is right then:

I'm ahead:
9 ways he can hold KQ

vs.

I'm behind:
3 ways for KK
3 ways for QQ
16 ways for AJ

So its 22:9, more than 2:1 that I'm behind here, that's why I just called the turn.

[mplspoker]

What about AA or AK.... Keep betting/raising.

[steveyz]

While it's certainly possible UTG+1 has AJ, KK, or QQ, it's also very possible he has KQ (or even KT). I'd be tempted to go one more raise on turn because of that cold caller who you are beating for sure. You are getting 2:1 for your money and I think you're good here more than 33% of the time.

[Garland]

Hi Fianchetto,

[ QUOTE ]
Who reraises here? I usually will 3-bet with TT if I can narrow the field and/or get position. In this pot I wasn't getting anybody out, and its unlikely I would win unimproved, so I just called. With pocket jacks I probably 3-bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would simply call as you did. You're not getting anyone out of this hand with a 3-bet.

[ QUOTE ]
How did I do?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would lead the flop myself. There's three big reasons I want to do it.

1) It's deceptive. No one will put you on a set, at least early on. You could have a 10, QJ for an OESD or K.

2) Even if UTG+1 raises, I'm willing to bet with the pot the size that it is as well as your description of how loose they are, if anyone has a piece of it or any hope as well as any pocket pair, they'll pay 2 cold preflop anyways. Now if you're pretty sure UTG+1 will bet the turn again, the callers who are still contending will also call, and you can check-raise trapping everyone for 2 big bets. Delicious! Bottom line: you're putting in more money with the best of it. You want as much money in the pot with a set as possible.

3) It's easier to play. Now if UTG+1 simply calls the flop and raises the turn, you can slow down because he's more likely to have AJ, QQ or KK rather than AK or KQ. When you checked to him and let him bet on the flop, you are more in the dark to his holdings because he may be betting simply because he was the preflop raiser.

I would never put someone on a higher set unless he gets raise crazy. The way you played it, I think it's worth at least one more raise on the turn because he's more likely to have a hand like KQ or K10.

Garland

[flapjack]

[ QUOTE ]
2) Even if UTG+1 raises, I'm willing to bet with the pot the size that it is as well as your description of how loose they are, if anyone has a piece of it or any hope as well as any pocket pair, they'll pay 2 cold preflop anyways. Now if you're pretty sure UTG+1 will bet the turn again, the callers who are still contending will also call, and you can check-raise trapping everyone for 2 big bets. Delicious! Bottom line: you're putting in more money with the best of it. You want as much money in the pot with a set as possible.



[/ QUOTE ]

What do you say to the followig: The pot is already good sized on the flop (6BB) and most likely going to get quite large no matter what. I would rather win a modest/large pot then give people the correct odds to draw out on me in a monster. I think this is a product of my playing in very loose games and would like to get another opinion of it.

[Garland]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
2) Even if UTG+1 raises, I'm willing to bet with the pot the size that it is as well as your description of how loose they are, if anyone has a piece of it or any hope as well as any pocket pair, they'll pay 2 cold preflop anyways. Now if you're pretty sure UTG+1 will bet the turn again, the callers who are still contending will also call, and you can check-raise trapping everyone for 2 big bets. Delicious! Bottom line: you're putting in more money with the best of it. You want as much money in the pot with a set as possible.



[/ QUOTE ]

What do you say to the followig: The pot is already good sized on the flop (6BB) and most likely going to get quite large no matter what. I would rather win a modest/large pot then give people the correct odds to draw out on me in a monster. I think this is a product of my playing in very loose games and would like to get another opinion of it.

[/ QUOTE ]

The pot is sufficiently large that it's impossible to give incorrect drawing odds, pot and implied to drive people out. The best you can do is make them pay through the nose to beat you, and if you can dodge a few bullets, a HUGE pot is coming your way. The only way to drive people out is to play no limit/pot limit where you can make it hugely incorrect for them to catch their straights/flushes, etc. In my opinion the person with a set should be in a mindset to have as many people in the pot as possible throwing in as much money in the pot as possible by whatever means possible and expect to lose one in awhile to suck outs.

Garland

[Fianchetto]

Garland,
Leading the flop is an interesting alternative. I was almost certain UTG+1 would bet the flop, and I didn't want to have UTG+1 raise and chance knocking out all my customers on what I considered to be a fairly non threatening board.

My plan of checking raising the flop was along the lines of what you were saying:

[ QUOTE ]
In my opinion the person with a set should be in a mindset to have as many people in the pot as possible throwing in as much money in the pot as possible by whatever means possible and expect to lose one in awhile to suck outs

[/ QUOTE ]

I wanted to trap everybody for a lot of bets, and it actually worked out that way, but I see the logic of leading the flop, letting him bet the turn and trapping everybody there.