Puzzle from 6max play

[Packerfan1]

I think my standard answer to this puzzle is wrong so I'd like to hear your answer and why. I'll post my current answer and rationale seperately.

You're in the big blind with random crap.. for the puzzles sake, lets say 96o. UTG calls, the SB calls and you get to see the free flop of say...

K 8 6 rainbow.

The SB (who you have no experience with) checks.

The UTG player is the definition of loose-passive, seeing 70% of the flops and while he bets often he never raises without the nutty-nut-nuts. If you bet, he WILL ALWAYS call regardless of his hand. If you check, he WILL ALWAYS bet regardless of his hand. On the turn if you bet again, he will USUALLY (say 80% of the time) call again. If you check the turn, he will ALWAYS bet.

What is your default plan for the hand and why?

If the responses are interesting I'll change some variables as I think this is a weakness in my SH game right now. Thanks.

Pack

[ctv1116]

For the example you give, I check and fold.

As for beating this opponent in general, this shouldn't be too difficult, if he plays as predictably as you make him.
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On the turn if you bet again, he will USUALLY (say 80% of the time) call again. If you check the turn, he will ALWAYS bet.

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Well the obvious solution is to never bet out; always check-raise if you would normally bet out.

[fyodor]

check fold because you have crap. beat him when you have something

[Schneids]

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check fold because you have crap. beat him when you have something

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Maybe Naphand or Nate can brew a concoction out of Pokerstove to verify or disprove my intuition, but basically I think due to there already being 3SB in the pot, the pot is offering you a large enough overlay to compete while holding a pair of 6's against an **almost** random hand that will **almost always** showdown.

The scenario changes slighly if SB is also fully aware of UTG, but I think betting makes this hand very easy to play and SB will usually get out of the way the times you are beating him.

For extremely loose passive games (so perhaps lets say this is a .5/1 or 1/2 table), it might become better to check and let UTG bet, and only call if SB folds.

For the games I'm used to (ie more aggressive) I think betting gets you a better grip on SB's hand.

[Peter_rus]

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check fold because you have crap.

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You have a monster against random. Folding is a huge mistake of loosing too many little pots.

[Schneids]

1) Bet the flop.

...Hopefully the UTG's call will increase the likelihood of SB folding and us getting it HU with what is **practically** a random hand.


2) Check and call the turn.

...If we succeed at getting it HU, betting the turn serves no purpose if he's going to fold his worst 20% and call the rest, versus betting 100% of his hands.

[Alobar]

what do you do on the turn if the SB comes along? check and fold if the SB calls the UTG auto bet, or call as well?

[Schneids]

[ QUOTE ]
what do you do on the turn if the SB comes along? check and fold if the SB calls the UTG auto bet, or call as well?

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I could only fully answer that, obviously, if more specifications are laid out about SB.

As a default though it will also depend on what the turn card is... An ace sucks as a turn card, as do 7's, tens, jacks and queens to an extent. I would probably again bet any turn card under 6 because I'd like SB to have to make another overcall and I'd like to make SB decide what he thinks of his hand rather than checking and seeing a bet and call and now me having to decide.

[imitation]

This is a scenario I often seem to find myself in, I usually check call the flop and then fold the turn unimproved...I think overall it's a pretty weak line to play, but in my games (1/2) SB is probably a similar style player to UTG and will just call along as well.

[Packerfan1]

(Sorry, I forgot, this is supposed to assume a 5/10 or higher game at Party)

My current MO is to check and fold. Which, while I'm making about $65 an hour 2-tabling at 10/20, is why guys like Schneids and Strip will scoff at my sub 35% W$WSF.

I am glad to see I'm not the only one however that feels like its better to wait for a better opportunity against players that provide those opportunities freely and often.

My current rationale in this situation is this: If I bet, I gain no information. I still have NO idea where I am in this hand I've invested $20 in with bottom pair no kicker. Even if I am ahead, which shorthanded will argueably be the majority of the time as Schneids correctly points out, there are few cards I can get excited about as I prepare to put another $20 in on the turn because I sure can't show weakness now and let this unreadable calling station goofball take the pot with a turn bet... as you can see, I generally abhor check-calling and don't consider that a good option for either the flop or the turn.

So I just pass, and I'm feeling like I "should" be betting.

I'll be interestd to read additional posts, as a secondary question I should ask... when do you definitely bet here?

Now if I have bottom pair with an overcard, or middle pair with additional backdoor equity, I'll usually fire one out and keep firing until someone says they have me beat. I suppose the best thing would be to post a few hands..

Thanks for responses...

Pack