Good laydown, or wussy play?

[Paddy]

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (8 handed)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, Hero calls, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, CO calls, Button folds, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG bets, Hero raises, CO folds, SB calls, BB folds, UTG calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
SB bets, UTG raises, Hero folds, SB calls.

River: (9.50 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
SB bets, UTG raises, SB calls.

Final Pot: 13.50 BB

[SnakeRat]

Good laydown, assuming they are typical you are behind.


Im not sure you have odds to draw to a K or club, especially since your flush is a pretty dubious out.

[kenewbie]

Good laydown in my book. Both of them are not bluffing after you raised the flop so you can safely muck.

I'd put SB on the nines and UTG on a flush.

k

[bisonbison]

I'd raise preflop. Since you didn't, I think this is fine. The turn bet and raise means you're behind one way or the other, the pot is not very big, and your outs are not the type that'll get you paid off big on the river.

[Paddy]

Really? Raise KQo utg+1? Not that I disagree, I just have trouble playing big unsuited connectors pf. KQ, KJ, AJ, etc. I'll raise next time.

[o0mr_bill0o]

I'd disagree here. At least in the games i've been playing (1/2 PP), I'll get a lot more good action in an unraised pot than I will in a raised one (i.e. lots of people staying in with K or Q weak kicker), and I don't want to push these people out of the pot. most people will raise with the hands that'll have you kicking yourself, but may very well just call if you open with a raise PF. Therefore, you'll also lose a little bit of information that you may need post-flop. when i raise i tend to do it just to switch things up a bit, or late position in order to show a bit of aggression and get a few more bucks in the pot. maybe you've been playing different games than me, though.

[SnakeRat]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd disagree here. At least in the games i've been playing (1/2 PP), I'll get a lot more good action in an unraised pot than I will in a raised one (i.e. lots of people staying in with K or Q weak kicker), and I don't want to push these people out of the pot.

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I raise KQo first in, and have NEVER had any problem getting action from junk hands.

[ QUOTE ]
most people will raise with the hands that'll have you kicking yourself, but may very well just call if you open with a raise PF. Therefore, you'll also lose a little bit of information that you may need post-flop. when i raise i tend to do it just to switch things up a bit, or late position in order to show a bit of aggression and get a few more bucks in the pot. maybe you've been playing different games than me, though.

[/ QUOTE ]

AK, AQ are the only hands to worry about here, but they are unlikely to be out there when you hold KQ.
If you magically know they are out there, just fold.

How does limping protect you from these rare domination situations?
The small information which could potentially be lost is vastly outweighed by people cold-calling with J7 soooted.

[Sent]

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I raise KQo first in, and have NEVER had any problem getting action from junk hands.


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First in with KQo in EP, Im more liable to fold than raise. Even with one caller before me, I'd still probably fold this PF. Too weak?

-Sent

[dfscott]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I raise KQo first in, and have NEVER had any problem getting action from junk hands.


[/ QUOTE ]

First in with KQo in EP, Im more liable to fold than raise. Even with one caller before me, I'd still probably fold this PF. Too weak?

-Sent

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IMO, yes. I will alway play this from EP, and raise from MP or later.

[bdk3clash]

[ QUOTE ]
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I raise KQo first in, and have NEVER had any problem getting action from junk hands.


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First in with KQo in EP, Im more liable to fold than raise. Even with one caller before me, I'd still probably fold this PF. Too weak?

-Sent

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Yes. If I had to identify the #1 profit source in hold'em, I think it would be my opponents' playing dominated hands. KJ, KT, QJ, QT, and worse are regularly calling your EP raises in these games.

Against tighter opponents (ie the 2+2 table) who are only likely to play against you with hands that might even dominate you, I agree that you can muck KQo in EP. However, games that fit that condition at the micro and even small stakes are rare.

So, yeah, raise with KQo.