help against a LAG

[Navers]

This was originally posted in the poker theory foruum but I was told that Mr. Schoonmaker and the people who hang out at the psychology forum could answer my question:

I play my friend headsup winner-take-all for small amounts of money. The problem I have playing is that he's very aggressive and bluffs very often. I have slowplayed him and won before but when I'm not catching good cards it can be a while before taking a big pot.

My major problem comes when I have something like medium pair medium kicker and he bets large, something around 4x or 5x the big blind on the turn and river. He bluffs so often its hard to call him down on the turn and river. I'm only comfortable playing my top pairs against him, but I don't get top pair very often heads up.

Whenever I get a good hand (for heads up) like K10 or better, I raise the pot, but if the flop is rags he'll bet enough out on me to force me to fold much of the time.

What adjustments do I need to win more against this type of player? Calling and raising seems fine only in limit hold em, but in NL I tried this and it hurt quite a few times. What kinds of hands do I need to play? What strategic betting adjustments need to be made? Also, what can I do to stop his behavior or in any way alleviate my situation? Any input would be appreciated.

[paland]

LOL. You're just getting pushed around. Grow some Huevos.

[Navers]

[ QUOTE ]
You're just getting pushed around. Grow some Huevos.

[/ QUOTE ] How about a serious answer?

[Al Schoonmaker]

The short handed section of HPFAP points out that the LAP's style shifts from a liability to a huge asset as the number of players decreases. Heads up, he will murder you, especially in NLHE.
The ONLY thing to do is DON'T PLAY HIM HEADS UP.
I am NOT fooling.
He will run over you.
Sorry to give you such discouraging news, but, unless you are willing to change your style completely, don't try to play him heads up.
I must add that hardly anyone can make a complete change in his style.
You and everyone else has to understand the strengths and weaknesses of your natural style, know how to change it, but accept that your ability to change is almost always limited.
Smart players choose games they can beat. Dumb ones kid themselves about their limitations.
Regards,
Al

[Navers]

[ QUOTE ]
unless you are willing to change your style completely, don't try to play him heads up.
I must add that hardly anyone can make a complete change in his style.

[/ QUOTE ] I'm just a beginning hold em player, so is there any greater chance for me to change my style since I haven't formed one completely yet?

Also, isn't forming a style part of how you become a good player, when you have to unnaturally learn to become a tight-aggressive player?

[Al Schoonmaker]

My guess, and it is only a guess, is that a new player will be more flexible than an experienced one. We all develop habits, and they are hard to change.
It you develop a tight-aggressive style early in your "career," you are way ahead of most people. It takes most of us a lot of work and study to develop it.
But the tight-aggressive style does not work heads up against a hyper-aggressive player.
The great players have a much wider range of styles than you and I. That's one reason they are great players.
Hardly anyone can adapt completely. That is, our natural personality and habits put limits on how much we can adjust to conditions.
Regards,
Al

[Clarkmeister]

"I must add that hardly anyone can make a complete change in his style"

C'mon Al. Poker is all about understanding the underlying concepts enough that one can play any style. Being able to adapt to your opponents and make any necessary adjustments is exactly what people should aspire to. One may prefer playing in a loose aggressive game, but should strive to be equally adept at shifting gears and correctly exploiting a tight passive game.

It's exactly the kind of mindset in your post that stops people from playing shorthanded. They get up when it gets down to 5 or 6 players. This not only costs them big time when shorthanded situations arise in their full ring games, it also costs them the opportunity to take advantage of profitable shorthanded situations that may arise.

This isn't football, where you can't teach someone to run a certain speed, or baseball where some just can't hit a fastball. This is poker, and anyone willing to put forth the effort should be able to learn the underlying concepts of the game well enough to apply those concepts as needed in changing game conditions. I'm surprised to see such a defeatist attitude in your post.

[Al Schoonmaker]

Perhaps people should be able to make large changes in their styles, but the evidence is very clear that most of us cannot actually do it.
You and I and everyone else are what we are because of our genes and a lifetime of experiences. The mere fact that our minds tell us that we should do this or that does not mean that we will be able to act out of character.
Of course, people vary enormously in their ability to adjust, but EVERYBODY has limitations. It is a form of denial to pretend that you don't have them. And denial is deadly.
You used a strong term, "defeatist attitude." The central concept of all my work is that people must be realistic about themselves and everything else.
You have been exhorted repeatedly to deny reality. You and many other Americans have been raised on a steady diet that it is manly to deny reality. "The team that won't be beaten, can't be beaten." "When the going gets tough, the tough get going." "The bigger they are, the harder they fall."
All of those slogans are utter BS, and they are extremely destructive for poker players. Our game allows us to choose when and where to play. In fact, the single most important decision we make is game selection.
If you choose games well, you will win.
If you choose games poorly, you will lose.
It really is that simple.
When the going gets tough, don't see it as a challenge. GET OUT.
Regards,
Al

[Warren Whitmore]

Excellent post. Very impressive.

[spamuell]

Hi Al,

I really disagree with your post. If people are meant to get out when the going gets tough, what is the point of these boards? I'm fairly certain that I can't beat a game of 40/80 hold'em at the moment, should I quit poker? There's no reason that I should not be able to beat it in future, I'm an intelligent enough person and with a reasonable amount of study, I should be able to achieve this.

I'm really perplexed at your attitude - why did you even write a book on poker (of which I own a copy) if we should just "GET OUT" when "the going gets tough"?

In fact, the single most important decision we make is game selection.

This is true but it doesn't mean we can't improve as players. I'm pretty sure you don't mean we can't improve, but this is what you seem to be saying and it's wrong.

Incidentally, the bigger they are, the harder they fall is true.