I don't know what to do with ATo

mackthefork · #1 09-01-2004, 01:10 PM

Just playing now on a pretty passive table, 6 and 7 handed what do you guys all do with ATo UTG, I've been folding it for a while but it feels wrong somehow. What do you think.

Regards Mack

PrayingMantis · #2 09-01-2004, 01:38 PM

It depends, of course, on the stacks and precise texture of the game, but generally, ATo UTG is very close to garbage, in a 7-handed game. Of course, if you are VERY low, and the blinds are about to eat you, it's an auto push. As a big/huge stack you can raise with it to bully others around, but it's a marginal move, IMO. Your position is awful for such a dominated hand. If you are medium stack, it's a clear fold, IMO.

mackthefork · #3 09-01-2004, 02:19 PM

Thanks just wanted to know i wasn't a million miles away from the correct course of action.

Regards Mack

durron597 · #4 09-01-2004, 02:37 PM

I don't think it's a clear fold on a passive table. I think it's worth a limp if you feel you can outplay the table (especially the BB), but not worth playing if you expect a raise behind you.

Nick B. · #5 09-01-2004, 02:39 PM

Raise, fold if reraised (unless by a small stack). Check call if an ace flops on a non scary board. Bet most flops that likely didn't help opponent, but don't be scared to release the hand if opponent shows aggresion.

durron597 · #6 09-01-2004, 02:42 PM

Ew, I hate this line. You don't want to play such a vulnerable hand in a big pot, you want to keep the pot small so you can get away from it.

Nick B. · #7 09-01-2004, 02:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Ew, I hate this line. You don't want to play such a vulnerable hand in a big pot, you want to keep the pot small so you can get away from it.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is a great line. You are playing too tight if you think about folding this utg. And calling with ATo utg, wow, that is not good at all. Check calling with an ace on the flop usually kills the action unless you are beat, but usually the opponents will not bet enough to make you fold, and if they do decide they want to push in, the sometimes you can fold it.

Indiana · #8 09-01-2004, 04:24 PM

Interesting question,

I have done a calculation that shows that against 9 players, the probability of someone having an A with a better kicker than 10, given that you have A10, is only 33%....So against 7 guys it would be in the 20s....By this rational, it isn't complete garbage....If you are desperate,you can push, but if you aren't maybe u can pop it for a small raise and pop the flop...You probably would back down with too much aggression...

Indiana

Nick B. · #9 09-01-2004, 06:15 PM

I guess it really depends what the buy in for the tournaments are and the level. I would guess that 7 people left would probably be around level 3 (50-100). I play the $200 sngs at party so my main interest is collecting chips. There really isn't that much post flop play so I don't think position matters that much. Here are a couple hands of ATo UTG.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (9 handed)

Hero (t955)
UTG+1 (t995)
MP1 (t885)
MP2 (t1180)
MP3 (t1980)
CO (t885)
Button (t1185)
SB (t955)
BB (t980)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Hero raises to t45, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO calls t45, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds.

Flop: (t115) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO checks.

Turn: (t115) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO checks.

River: (t115) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO checks.

Final Pot: t115
Main Pot: t115 (t115), between Hero and CO. > Pot won by CO (t115).

Results in white below: 
Hero shows As Td (one pair, eights).
CO shows Ad Qd (one pair, eights).
Outcome: CO wins t115. 

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (9 handed)

Hero (t1000)
UTG+1 (t1000)
MP1 (t1105)
MP2 (t2055)
MP3 (t860)
CO (t985)
Button (t925)
SB (t965)
BB (t1105)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
Hero raises to t45, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 calls t45, CO folds, Button calls t45, SB folds, BB folds.

Flop: (t160) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets t125, MP3 folds, Button folds.

Final Pot: t285
Main Pot: t160 (t160), won by Hero.
Pot 2: t125 (t125), returned to Hero.

Results in white below: 
No showdown. Hero wins t285. 

My favorite ATo, although not utg, i just feel like bragging a little.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (8 handed)

Hero (t1450)
UTG (t160)
UTG+1 (t900)
MP1 (t780)
MP2 (t3230)
CO (t990)
Button (t1495)
SB (t995)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, CO folds, Button calls t30, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (t90) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, Button bets t85, SB folds, Hero raises to t250, Button calls t165.

Turn: (t590) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks.

River: (t590) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets t1170 (All-In), Button calls t1170.

Final Pot: t2930
Main Pot: t2930 (t2930), between Hero and Button. > Pot won by Hero (t2930).

Results in white below: 
Hero shows Ac Td (straight, ace high).
Button shows Th Qc (one pair, queens).
Outcome: Hero wins t2930. 

The middle rounds are good for collecting chips. If you are folding AT utg then I think you are playing too tight to give yourself legitimate shots at making the money and having very good chances of winning.

Navers · #10 09-01-2004, 04:40 PM

why is it better to raise than limp with ATo?