K10s badly misplayed

Duffman · #1 10-18-2005, 03:35 PM

Everyone in hand is loose/fishy. Not enough hands for stats. Preflop raiser has been raising alot lately.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is CO with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 4 folds, Hero calls, 1 fold, SB raises, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls.

I was thinking about raising instead of calling, but decided K10s is too weak of a hand.

After the PFR I was thinking about 3-betting to bloat the pot. Once again I decided K10s is just too weak.

Flop: (10 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB bets, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, SB calls.

Turn: (7 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls.

Very bad call here. What was I thinking?

River: (11 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls.

Next time I make a call like this, I'm quitting poker.

Final Pot: 15 BB

@bsolute_luck · #2 10-18-2005, 03:42 PM

raise preflop. fold the flop.

peterchi · #3 10-18-2005, 03:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Preflop: Hero is CO with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 4 folds, Hero calls, 1 fold, SB raises, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls.

I was thinking about raising instead of calling, but decided K10s is too weak of a hand.

[/ QUOTE ]
I usually would. Your hand likely has greater equity than either of the limpers, and it's nice to have some control over the action.

[ QUOTE ]

After the PFR I was thinking about 3-betting to bloat the pot. Once again I decided K10s is just too weak.

[/ QUOTE ]
hm. I'm not sure what I think about this.

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Flop: (10 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB bets, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, SB calls.

[/ QUOTE ]
I know the pot is pretty big, but... I think I could fold here. I think you need the pot to be even bigger given that the two spades are out there.

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Turn: (7 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls.

Very bad call here. What was I thinking?

[/ QUOTE ]
yeah. river too, but you know it already. I guess you posted this so that the flaming would remind you not to do it again, but I'm not very good at being brutal.

Nick C · #4 10-18-2005, 03:46 PM

Preflop, I think you can raise the first time around, but I don't think the limp is awful or anything. In any event, when it came back to me, I would probably just call, fearing, for instance, that I might be dominated.

The flop call seems fine to me, but I agree with you that you can release on the turn. Your outs just seem too tainted to me here, in this multiway pot.

I also agree with you that the river over-overcall is not good.

brettbrettr · #5 10-18-2005, 03:56 PM

Raise pre-flop.

#6 10-18-2005, 04:16 PM

Someone explain the preflop advice to me. Are we valuing KTs because the limpers are bad players? Against good players and regular bad players, i'd limp with this to coax 5:1 odds aiming for a flush or flush draw. I would have to see consistently poor poker from the limpers to play the KT for paring potential. Am I wrong?

As for the hand, I would call the flop bet getting 12:1, needing about 4 outs which is satisfied by the three useful queens and the BDFD. After the turn I cut out, and if i clicked call by mistake, I'd still fold the river.

brettbrettr · #7 10-18-2005, 04:26 PM

A pair of kings wins it fair share of pots.

#8 10-18-2005, 05:21 PM

Do you trust the ten kicker because the limpers are bad, or against good limpers too? I can't like it against average or good players, because either I'm not getting action on my top pair, or paying off a better hand. Wrong?

Avatar of Wine · #9 10-18-2005, 05:38 PM

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Do you trust the ten kicker because the limpers are bad, or against good limpers too? I can't like it against average or good players, because either I'm not getting action on my top pair, or paying off a better hand. Wrong?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you replace "average or good" with "tight (and somewhat passive)" then you have a good chance of being correct - after all, domination is likely if you can place KJ/KQo/JT/AT in the open-limping and overlimping ranges (and eliminate other hands you have dominated, such as Kxs).

Now, if the read is "loose/fishy", we can basically paraphrase Eddy Miller and say, "A pair of Kings is a pretty good hand" - donkeys always draw and all that.

Also consider that if you're better post-flop than the other players, and you know that there are only 2 other Kings left in the deck, you may be able to utilize this advantage to help ameliorate situations like "can I trust my T kicker?"

BigBrother · #10 10-18-2005, 05:28 PM

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A pair of kings wins it fair share of pots.

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Yes, but doubtful it's 20% of raised family fish-fry pots with an Ace, a str8, and 3-flush onboard. And on the Turn you have to commit to 2 bets (minimum) to see this showdown for less than 10BB profit.