I was SO confused this hand

[golfboy7]

I didn't have PAH up when playing this hand so I don't want to give the stats of the players because I'd like to see what you guys think of my thought and play on the hand.

Pre flop, I KNOW it's standard.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB calls, <font color="#CC3333">BB caps</font>, UTG calls, MP2 calls, Hero calls, SB calls.


When I see this flop, I'm thinking I have a good hand with a nice draw. This action gets intense though. I'm thinking SB has J10s the way he's been calling pre flop and raising this flop.

Flop: (20 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, UTG folds, MP2 calls, Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">SB 3-bets</font>, BB calls, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

Turn card comes and immediately I think, 'good, I have 4 more outs.'

Turn: (16 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, BB folds, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

I whiff the river and begin thinking of how the hand was played. What hands could SB have? I went through the LARGE list of hands that would beat me that he would play like he did: including AJs J10s and JJ/1010.

When MP called the river bet I felt that I could safely fold because I can see the cards of my opponents and won't let one of them take it down. Also, I figured if the SB didn't have me beat then MP MUST have me beat if he can call.
River: (19 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, MP2 calls, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 21 BB

I'll post results a little later.

edited for clarity

I think your river fold is terrible, and I would three bet the flop. You have a good (not great) chance of being ahead, but also something like five outs in a big put even if behind.

The turn of course gives you a double gutshot, meaning you can see the river, and on the river I would pay them off, knowing I have a very small chance of being good, but it is such a large pot it is worth paying off with.


Folding the turn would be just terrible. You often have 10 outs here.

[golfboy7]

expecting MANY replies like this one.

Please, LET ME HAVE IT people. I am being COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY SERIOUS.

Call me horrible for this fold. Belittle me. Because damnit, I need you people to absolutely BEAT IT INTO MY THICK SKULL that I have to look at ALL the factors before I make my decision.

Mainly, this hand: POT SIZE

[LImitPlayer]

I would have 3 bet the flop. The hand would have played out differently had you taken contol of it.

[Nick C]

[ QUOTE ]
I would have 3 bet the flop. The hand would have played out differently had you taken contol of it.

[/ QUOTE ]

To be results-oriented for a little bit, I think there's a good chance that, had Hero 3-bet the flop, SB would have capped.

[JackyChilds]

I dont think you`ll need any help remembering not to fold in this situation next time. I know, it makes you sick to your stomach. I`ve done it, more than once, and so have many other people on this board. Learn from it and move on to the next hand.

The one thing that stood out for me in this hand after thinking about it is: What the hell did BB have that he would cap PF and then fold on the turn with that board getting 17:1!!?

[Yako]

[ QUOTE ]
Folding the turn would be just terrible. You often have 8 outs here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah, my very first FYP. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
You really think the Queens are outs often here?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Folding the turn would be just terrible. You often have 8 outs here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah, my very first FYP. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
You really think the Queens are outs often here?

[/ QUOTE ]

They're good against a set. This is a capped pot preflop. A nine is certainly possible, but not possibly certain.

[Harv72b]

The only reason I can think of for not 3-betting the flop is that you were waiting for a safe turn card to raise on, and with a hand as vulnerable as QQ on a very draw-heavy flop, that would be bad. You've got an overpair, you've got plenty of draws that'll put more bets into the pot for you, and you've got 3 opponents sticking around--it doesn't get much better than that.

Turn is fine. Raising doesn't seem like a good idea, as you hate to be 3-bet here (unless you river a non-diamond K).

I don't think folding the river for 1 bet is terrible, but vs. two unknowns (which you're treating these players as) &amp; getting 21:1, it ain't good either. You only have to be up against SB's busted flush draw &amp; MP2's KJ 5% of the time to make this a good call.

[golfboy7]

Yeah, I really felt sick to my stomach after this hand

REsults in white below:
<font color="white"> SB shows Kd7d </font>
<font color="white"> MP shows 910offsuit and wins </font>