20-40 AJs monster draw.

bad beetz · #1 01-16-2005, 07:55 PM

3 limpers to me in SB with A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. BB looks disinterested. I call.

Flop is K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. I check, le-le-le man* who plays ABC (and a little loose, little passive) bets. One player folds. Older very ABC dude calls. BB is going to fold. I check-raise, they both call.

How do you play the rest of the hand?

*Le-Le-Le man is about 40 years old and plays at Bay 101 and Garden City. He looks like a 70's porn star with curly hair, and when he gets excited he says, "Leh! Leh! Leh!" which is (according to him) the sound (in Arabic) camels make when they hump.

TStoneMBD · #2 01-16-2005, 08:02 PM

preflop is a "raise or fold" situation. /end sarcasm

Mr. Amanti · #3 01-17-2005, 05:51 AM

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preflop is a "raise or fold" situation. /end sarcasm

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-why would you ever fold this for a half bet preflop?

TStoneMBD · #4 01-17-2005, 06:17 AM

note the sarcasm, i was mocking some of the players who are only familiar with "raise or fold" tactics. i was advising a raise as its far better than calling. obviously calling is better than folding.

bad beetz · #5 01-18-2005, 05:41 PM

dude, I don't think raising 4 limpers in the SB with AJs is "way" better than calling. In fact, I see them as kind of the same. My position blows, and while my hand is quite good, it's not a monster.

steveyz · #6 01-18-2005, 06:10 PM

Granted, if I you had AA/AK/AKs, it would be "way" better to raise than to call. That doesn't decrease the merits of raising AJs in this situation here though. Although your hand is not a monster and you are in poor position, your hand still plays well against several limpers.

Raise and be prepared to check-fold a lot of flops.

34TheTruth34 · #7 01-18-2005, 07:58 PM

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I don't think raising 4 limpers in the SB with AJs is "way" better than calling

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you're wrong.

raise and bet the flop with the intention of three-betting or capping.

bobbyi · #8 01-20-2005, 08:05 PM

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dude, I don't think raising 4 limpers in the SB with AJs is "way" better than calling. In fact, I see them as kind of the same. My position blows and while my hand is quite good, it's not a monster.

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Even though your position blows postflop, you have good position preflop in that you act after all the limpers and get to see what they do. The fact that no one raised makes it very likely that you aren't dominated, as long as these aren't players who routinely limp with AK, AQ and big pairs. UTG, AJs might be merely "quite good" because even though it is a strong hand, it can easily be dominated. Once you know that no one (except maybe BB) is interested in raising, it improves to much closer to being a monster.

[ QUOTE ]
when he gets excited he says, "Leh! Leh! Leh!" which is (according to him) the sound (in Arabic) camels make when they hump.

[/ QUOTE ]
Camels speak Arabic?

elysium · #9 01-17-2005, 07:34 AM

hi bad

check-raising the flop....i don't know. the problem with check-raising is pretty obvious. you are clearly trailing and although you have a hand that can improve to the nuts, it is still vulnerable against le-le man as you call him.

no bad, the check-raise, no, no.

you need to consider how your opponents might be inspired to believe that your check-raise on the flop means that you'll be betting out on the turn, and that's what makes it a bad move. you see, just arming them with information that indicates to them what you'll be doing on the next round, gives them, not you, the initiative, even though your first to act. now, there are sometimes certain strategic reasons for check-raising in situations similar to this one, but you need to know when not to do it, and this situation, although similar, calls for some other action. you must keep le-le man away from information. and now look;

you are being set-up for a raise. if my read on le-le is correct, he knows that he is in the lead. if he had any doubt about that, he would likely reraise you to remove that doubt. you actually may have wanted to see le-le reraise you here. it's a little better for you. but what happens? oh no! awww bad...he calls, he calls. no, no, no.

don't you dare bet into that man.

it's a good thing that you have all your outs bad. you will need each and every one of them. another very good thing is that your outs are toward the nuts. nevertheless, this holding is not as strong as it appears unto you. you must minimize your cost of improving by avoiding the turn raise, and try to remember that when you're in this situation with that man, you don't take action that will give him vital turn information. against le-le, you patiently wait until he makes a move that tells you a little about what he might do, and not the other way around. you don't have a make a move hand, you have a little bush hand. you're quietly waiting for the right moment and a queen, at which time, maybe you can bag a lion.

TStoneMBD · #10 01-17-2005, 07:43 AM

elysium i disagree. the checkraise is solid. advocating a smooth call on this flop is terrible poker. you have 12 outs to the nuts, and ace is probably also a live card and you have 2 players. by raising this flop, you gain approx +7.50EV every time a player has merely a king. if someone has only a ten, you are up to 18 outs. im liking his hand at the moment.