Party 100+9 (whats your line on this tough draw)

[A_PLUS]

Early in MTT. I have a had a great run of cards, and have 1865$ at the 10/20 level. My image is pretty Laggy, although I have only shown premium hands,I have been in a few large pots.

Villan is in MP, I am MP+1. He has been very active. My last hand with him, he pushed on the turn into a smallish pot.

MP Calls [20]
Hero raises to [100] Ad Kh
BB calls [80]

Flop (310) Td Qd 8d

MP bets 375....

Whats your line?

[bestcellar]

I couldn't get all my chips in fast enough. Unless he has a set, you are a huge favorite and may even take the pot down. If he calls, you have something like 20 outs

[A_PLUS]

This wasn't necessarily my play, but something that I was discussing with a friend afterwards.

If I am Villan, and I have a set, 2 pair, TPTK. Doesnt a push from another large stack look like a draw? Wouldnt a smooth call look more like a made hand? I think maybe the call-push turn may have the most FE against a made hand (non flush)

[mts]

Your draw is a lot better with 2 cards to come.

Let me get this straight, you want to call then push the turn against a made hand?

[A_PLUS]

[ QUOTE ]
Let me get this straight, you want to call then push the turn against a made hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you have TPTK, 2 pair, set, etc. Flop is 3 to a suit.

You overbet the pot on the flop, what do you think when someone calls vs pushes? Your right about the logic behind the push on any turn, but against certain opponents, I would make that play. What about the call, then take the free card on the turn? (this is assuming that he reads my call as "the new raise")

I guess my main point is that the push on the flop looks like what it is, a draw. So FE isnt that high. Given that my equity in the pot is about even, is pushing correct?

[Lloyd]

Because you have NO folding equity on the turn, a push on the flop is the only correct play.

[blockafor]

IMO, your call would look like a pair plus a good diamond or a made nut flush (not as likely). And if I'm the villain with 2-pair or better and the turn is a non-diamond, I'm pushing.

[PrayingMantis]

[ QUOTE ]
I think maybe the call-push turn may have the most FE against a made hand (non flush)

[/ QUOTE ]

You can't push turn if he's acting before you and he's an aggressive player. Calling the flop might look weak (which it is), and cause him to put you all-in on the the turn (no-diamond), which you'll hate. I don't think you can get away from this hand (that is, calling the flop) with these stacks and dynamics. Best option is reraising all-in.

[Jason Strasser]

[ QUOTE ]
Doesnt a push from another large stack look like a draw? Wouldnt a smooth call look more like a made hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. But, the alternative most of the time is to call and then either turn a hand that might end your action or brick and face a bet with less folding equity and 1/2 the chance you had on the flop of making a hand.

-Jason

[A_PLUS]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes. But, the alternative most of the time is to call and then either turn a hand that might end your action or brick and face a bet with less folding equity and 1/2 the chance you had on the flop of making a hand.


[/ QUOTE ]


How deep would the stacks have to be relative to the pot, for you to think that a call may be the best line here? Assuming the blinds and preflop bets were the same, how much would both need to have behind, to have enough FE on the turn, to make the deception of the call worth while?

BTW, he had bottom two pair, and I rivered the straight.