Beginner's series: Playing the big stack effectively

[vulturesrow]

Hey all,

Since I view this forum as more of the beginner forum, I thought Id post some discussion type questions vice specific hands since we get a lot of those. So here is my first one. Note I am posting them as a person who genuinely still absorbing NL and not making any claim to expert play. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

So my first question tonight how should you change up your game when you are the big stack at the table. I know the theory pretty well in a tournament. I think that obviously this is not going to be the same for a ring game. My initial thoughts are that hands like TPTK can be played a bit more strongly. This is about as far as I have gotten heh.

I believe this is a very important topic to consider for those of us who play the small blind / limited buyin tables. Through semi-intelligent play we oftern find ourselves sitting with the big stack. I just feel that I am not maximizing the edge that having the big stack should provide.

Chris

[umdpoker]

good question. i hate playing big stacks right now whenever another big stack is at table. bump.

[turnipmonster]

the first thing to lose from tournament theory is the idea that a big stack can somehow bully a small stack in a cash game. in a cash game, "bullying" a small stack is referred to as "giving them your chips" or "doubling them up". in some parts of missisippi it is also known as "pissing away money".

big stack play really gets interesting when you are playing other big stacks. playing small stacks with a big stack is not so interesting, because it's the same as playing a stack of equal size, right?

--turnipmonster

[daryn]

turnip,

i tried to make your exact argument in the IRC chat the other day, but i was shouted down and told that the big stack has a huge advantage in cash games.

i'm still on the fence [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[turnipmonster]

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A BIG STACK BULLYING ANYONE IN A CASH GAME WHERE YOU CAN REBUY EVER.

there. I said it, and now I feel better. I love to debate this because I am right, and everyone who disagrees is wrong [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. the only big stack argument I have ever heard that made an ounce of sense was a case prevaricator came up with where you had everyone outchipped by a ton (like 20x more than the small stack), and that was for a heads up situation.

--turnipmonster

[daryn]

calling out el diablo!! turnip agrees with me! what say you??

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A BIG STACK BULLYING ANYONE IN A CASH GAME WHERE YOU CAN REBUY EVER.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, there is.

Short stacks can't play a lot of hands when there are big stacks at the table, 'cause big stacks can make it too expensive to play and their own stack size kills their implied odds.

Also, short stacks face a big psychological challenge from big stacks who are willing to gamble w/ perceived small edges - they will often put a small stack to tough decisions in what are likely to be coin-flippy situations for the small stack.

In general, short stacks have to wait for premium hands or draws to get their money in if they're going to win.

[Rah]

The normal stacks have the same implied odds as when playing against a normal buyin. A larger stack doesnt effect the implied odds, they stay the same! A bully who tries to make it expensive to play is killing his stack. Maybe this may work against players not daring to push good hands, but it sure isn't a good strategy as soon as the players start to catch on to what you're doing.

Neither is it an advantage to push "small edges" when having a big stack. It's just a matter of time until a short stack picks up a monster and crushes the small edges.

The only advantage of having the large stack is the psychological advantage.

[Leo Bello]

Advantage over fish/begginers. there is indeed. They tend to think the big stack is a great player, and tend to fold to any steal try.
It does bring you the problem of people slowplaying against you. But hey, that can happen with virtually any stack.
And I personally think it is an disadvantage playing short-stacked in relation to the big stack in the game. when you hit your hands, it will not double you up.
Into becoming softer because you are the bigger stack, I wouldn´t vow for it.

[ML4L]

Hey vultures,

It's all about implied odds. If there is another fairly deep stack at the table, he is getting the odds to play speculative hands against you, and you are getting odds to play speculative hands against him. So, keep that in mind and try to avoid situations where you end up having to back an OK hand out of position with your stack. An overpair, for example, especially if your opponent knows that's what you have. At the same time, deep money will afford you the opportunity to play small pairs, etc., because the implied odds will be there.

So, if anything, I would play a hand like TPTK less strongly. With short stacks, that's usually enough to get my money in. With a deeper stack, you have to make sure that you don't get trapped, while still maximizing your profit. Not easy... [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

ML4L