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#1
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Way ahead or way behind?
So normally I'd have check-raised the flop, but after a moments consideration I decided to play the hand more passively. With no draws on the flop I decided I would get more value from the hand if I was ahead by allowing him to bluff at me, and save bets if I was behind. Was this the correct play? Villain in this piece was 18/3 but I only had 40 hands on him.
Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (10 handed) converter Preflop: Heroine is UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. <font color="#CC3333">Heroine raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">7 folds</font>, Heroine calls. Flop: (7.66 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> Heroine checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 bets</font>, Heroine calls. Turn: (4.83 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> Heroine checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 bets</font>, Heroine calls. River: (6.83 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> Heroine checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 bets</font>, Heroine calls. Final Pot: 8.83 BB |
#2
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Re: Way ahead or way behind?
I like raising the flop here. I think you would have a better Idea of where you are if you did as well as charging him for any draws.
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#3
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Re: Way ahead or way behind?
[ QUOTE ]
I like raising the flop here. I think you would have a better Idea of where you are if you did as well as charging him for any draws. [/ QUOTE ] See the original post. -SmileyEH |
#4
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Re: Way ahead or way behind?
[ QUOTE ]
I like raising the flop here. I think you would have a better Idea of where you are if you did as well as charging him for any draws. [/ QUOTE ] There aren't any draws, and she played the hand fine. |
#5
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Re: Way ahead or way behind?
[ QUOTE ]
I like raising the flop here. I think you would have a better Idea of where you are if you did as well as charging him for any draws. [/ QUOTE ] what kind of idea? are you really going to fold when you get 3-bet? or allow him to get off cheaply with an underpair or have him correctly fold a 3 outer? |
#6
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Re: Way ahead or way behind?
If she's going to play it like this isn't a river bet necessary?
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#7
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Re: Way ahead or way behind?
[ QUOTE ]
If she's going to play it like this isn't a river bet necessary? [/ QUOTE ] Yes. Against _some_ players a flop raise for information is actually great, for once. |
#8
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Re: Way ahead or way behind?
[ QUOTE ]
With no draws on the flop I decided I would get more value from the hand if I was ahead by allowing him to bluff at me, and save bets if I was behind. [/ QUOTE ] I know this makes sense on some sort of level, and I've noticed many more players going with this strategy. However, I absolutely hate the thinking "I could be way ahead or way behind, calling strategy". We didn't get to mid level by not being able to read players and will never get to a higher level by going with this strategy. So, what - you pick off a bluff or lose less bets. Playing against you becomes much more easy when you're on this line. Yes, this is my rant, because I'm the one who's been caught bluffing a few times, because of this new line from reasonably aggressive players. But, there really should be a good reason for calling when you're in position with top-pair great kicker. Personally, I would pop the turn or the river if I called the flop. Cheers Magi |
#9
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Re: Way ahead or way behind?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] With no draws on the flop I decided I would get more value from the hand if I was ahead by allowing him to bluff at me, and save bets if I was behind. [/ QUOTE ] I know this makes sense on some sort of level, and I've noticed many more players going with this strategy. However, I absolutely hate the thinking "I could be way ahead or way behind, calling strategy". We didn't get to mid level by not being able to read players and will never get to a higher level by going with this strategy. So, what - you pick off a bluff or lose less bets. Playing against you becomes much more easy when you're on this line. Yes, this is my rant, because I'm the one who's been caught bluffing a few times, because of this new line from reasonably aggressive players. But, there really should be a good reason for calling when you're in position with top-pair great kicker. Personally, I would pop the turn or the river if I called the flop. Cheers Magi [/ QUOTE ] The key is that she is NOT in position. And no, you don't become easier to play against with this line, it becomes harder; your opponent can never tell if you are drawing and when you are drawing they might start giving you free cards. |
#10
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Re: Way ahead or way behind?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] With no draws on the flop I decided I would get more value from the hand if I was ahead by allowing him to bluff at me, and save bets if I was behind. [/ QUOTE ] I know this makes sense on some sort of level, and I've noticed many more players going with this strategy. However, I absolutely hate the thinking "I could be way ahead or way behind, calling strategy". We didn't get to mid level by not being able to read players and will never get to a higher level by going with this strategy. So, what - you pick off a bluff or lose less bets. Playing against you becomes much more easy when you're on this line. Yes, this is my rant, because I'm the one who's been caught bluffing a few times, because of this new line from reasonably aggressive players. But, there really should be a good reason for calling when you're in position with top-pair great kicker. Personally, I would pop the turn or the river if I called the flop. Cheers Magi [/ QUOTE ] The key is that she is NOT in position. And no, you don't become easier to play against with this line, it becomes harder; your opponent can never tell if you are drawing and when you are drawing they might start giving you free cards. [/ QUOTE ] You're right about the position -- my bad. I always wanted to chat about this line, so I hope you'll indulge me. I really believe it makes one easy to play against when taking this line. Given a reasonable opponent, if you are ahead, you're opponent IS drawing. They are either drawing to three outs on the K or two outs to match their pocket, or may have a Jack of diamonds drawing to the flush. Letting them make their draw while they have a chance at winning the pot (in their mind) by bluffing, is bad, IMO. It does become easier to play against, IMO. As an opponent of the check-call, I'm in control and can bet according to my hand. Yes, I don't know where my opponent is in the hand, but I can make a reasonble estimate. I can check the flop with a set or overpair and pop the turn or, I can check the flop, call the turn and pop the river if I feel you will bail on the turn. So many options as an opponent, and the check-call line, offers you no insight into the play of your opponent. We have pokertracker, Caro tells, 100 of thousands (likely millions) hands of experience. And, the best we can come up with is check-call. I totally understand the rationelle for the check-call line, but I think we have way too much experience to settle for that line. Cheers Magi |
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