I want the TRUTH

[Mikey]

This is something that is really bothering me, for all my life I've heard of all the great benefits of poker, of playing poker, huge sums of money, win streaks.

But what about the hundreds of thousands of losers.
You may be a winning player, but yeah by how much??

I have just wrapped up the month of playing online 3-6 HE and I have had one of the worst months in history, I multi-table between 4 to 7 tables and for the month I have played 107 Hours and have won $287.

I'm not going to talk about bad beats I REFUSE TO!!

I'm just saying that I believe I play very very well. Better than most players that I play against on 3-6 games, but I have had a terrbile month.

I want to know from you, what are your bad months like? How do you deal with the emotion that runs through it?

I have enough of a bankroll to withstand the swings but is it possible to have a month THIS TERRIBLE???!!!!!

IS THIS REALLY IT!!??

This is the truth side to it.

1) I believe I play very well.
2) I've had a terrible month.

Emotionally the only pain a feel is like being punted in the stomach. I'm not even angry, I may blurt out a few things while playing but then realize quickly what I'm doing, I'm complaining about something I can't control and then I quickly shut up.

And no... I do not have a tendencey to tilt.

Please tell me you have experienced something like this.
It would honestly be a great assest if we can have some other online pros respond to this thread as well as live game players.

Astroglide, Clarkmiester, Tommy Angelo, Ed Miller, DavidRoss, Dynasty, Ulysses, and all other online/live pros I'm sorry I haven't mentioned by name, please help me out here.

Is this the reality of it??

Is this how bad it can get or WORESE??!!!??

[Anadrol 50]

Did you include the money you earned from your rakeback deal ?

[Mikey]

No I keep it seperate because I don't necessarily count it as BB won or BB lost, I will still record it as a positive in StatKing but not along these lines.

[Al Schoonmaker]

You have the mistaken idea that you deserve to win serious money every month. You complain bitterly that you had a bad month because you won a small amount.

If you read the literature, you would learn that some of the world's greatest players have had long LOSING streaks.

For example, a recent issue of Card Player, reported that Doyle Brunson had been on a losing streak for six weeks. Do you play better than Doyle?

Dan Negreanu is the top player of 2004, and he has reported in his column than he has been broke several times. Do you play better than Dan?

Poker is gambling, and losses are part of all gambling.
You MUST accept that brutal reality or you will be miserable intermittently for the rest of your life.

Regards,
Al

[Mikey]

"You have the mistaken idea that you deserve to win serious money every month."

Yes I do.!!! That's just the point. I have spread my risk out so much. I consider multitabling as an investor considers diversifying his portfolio. You don't put all your eggs in one basket. I don't rely on one individual session; this is the reason why I multitable. I spread all that risk around.

"You MUST accept that brutal reality or you will be miserable intermittently for the rest of your life."

I do accept the brutal reality, but I guess its just harder to comprehend when I mulitable rather than when I play one game for one month during each session. The reason for this post is also because all we hear about all the time or at least what I hear about all the time is the GLAMOUR, but in honesty as I keep playing this game, No one admits they ever play badly or run badly. I want to know the truth behind it. There is that truth out there, I know it is. I want to hear from the rest of the community how they deal with it.

In all honesty Dr. Al, when I run bad I sometimes welcome it. I welcome it for all types of reasons and after coming off a terrible run of cards, I honestly sometimes sit here and smile because......

#1. It makes me work on my game all that much more.

#2. It makes me tougher emotionally and mentally when I have to figure out ways to deal with the downswings rather than bitch and moan like I am now.

#3. If it happens to me, I know damn well it had to or definitley will happen to you. Who is stronger in dealing with it mentally? Me or you? This this the one question that by asking myself will make me stronger(mentally emotionally)

I guess why I'm so upset is that I have played between 30,000 and 40,000 hands this month and expected better results than this. I guess why I'm also upset is that the first week of this month I was up $2000 and figured the trend would only increase since I was spreading out the risk, but obviously I was wrong. Maybe I need a better lesson in statistics.

Maybe I think I play very well, but in fact I don't!!!

Maybe I should just take it for what it is. "Something I'll never be able to control."

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
That's just the point. I have spread my risk out so much. I consider multitabling as an investor considers diversifying his portfolio. You don't put all your eggs in one basket. I don't rely on one individual session; this is the reason why I multitable. I spread all that risk around.

[/ QUOTE ]

Could this also cause you to be spreading yourself too thin? By playing say, 3-4 tables instead of 7, you might be able to make more as you will be keeping track of fewer variables. There has to be a break even point in multitabling where your profit margin levels off or even declines.

[ QUOTE ]
The reason for this post is also because all we hear about all the time or at least what I hear about all the time is the GLAMOUR, but in honesty as I keep playing this game, No one admits they ever play badly or run badly. I want to know the truth behind it. There is that truth out there, I know it is. I want to hear from the rest of the community how they deal with it.


[/ QUOTE ]

Glamour? When you're able to tell people how much hard work it is, glamour will be the furthest word from the vocabulary. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] A couple posters have posted bad runs. GoT i believe posted something like his results per session or month that showed some interesting swings. I think Diablo may have done it also. However, the only real way to get the full grasp of it is to go through it yourself.

One way i think of it is when i have a great session, as friggin rare as that is these days, i look at how much i made an hour for the session. Let's say it's 12bb an hour. (nice wet dream of mine [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]) Eventually, you will go on a bad run where you will lose at least 10+bb hour bringing you back down to the normal rate.(talking live game here, not online. So the rates may differ, but you get the idea i'm aiming at) You may not blow that money back all in one session, it could take awhile. Which goes both ways. Remember this when you see a donator(usually directly on my right [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]) on a huge ass run. He will give it back eventually.

[ QUOTE ]
It makes me tougher emotionally and mentally when I have to figure out ways to deal with the downswings rather than bitch and moan like I am now

[/ QUOTE ]

I've found it very theraputic to post bad runs on here. Sometimes you just have to get it out. It does build up inside and twists you inside out at times. It can feel like you're the only one going through them and that everyone else is winning but you. But as you mentioned above, eventually you do get used to them. One way is to learn how to take the results, even pot-wise, out of the equation. Easier said than done. But if you're satisfied with how you played whether a hand or session, it won't matter if you actually won or lost that hand/session.

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe I should just take it for what it is. "Something I'll never be able to control."

[/ QUOTE ]

You can't control a swing happening, but you can minimize it's affect by making sure you're playing well. You can recognize what is happening. A guy came up to me while i was in a game the other day and asked how i was doing. I told him i was on a horrendous run. He said i should take a break. Which is good advice. But i told him i was playing well, for the most part, and that you have to play through the swings sometime. You can't run and hide from them. Switching tables/casinos won't change it. (I just had that conversation with my brother about hiding from swings) Though a change of scenery can help psychologically in many cases. Remember the 'bad' seat you just changed from could go on a run at any time. I got my ass kicked on one table a while back and finally busted out. Flapjack, another 2+2er, took my seat and quickly went on a nice run.

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe I think I play very well, but in fact I don't!!!


[/ QUOTE ]

One way to test is ask yourself why you're doing any play on the table you're doing. Make sure you are considering all the factors in the equation that you can. If you can answer it soundly/honestly you're likely on the right track. Even if you're just playing a hand for the hell of it. (not making a habit of doing this) Say you're playing JTo by raising in EP. You know you're giving up quite a bit doing this, but you got a wild hair on this one hand. It's not even an image play as you already are getting lots of action. You just want to have fun, maybe blow some steam on this one hand. The above example isn't a routine play by any means. But knowing what you're giving up and why you're doing it plus all the ramifications/benefits of it is something many don't really think about.

Some say the above is wasting money. True. But many players will take a break from the table and blow more on a hand of craps or BJ in the casino than they will likely blow during this one hand. But the above is just about knowing the pros and cons of a play before doing it in regards to all the plays you make. Which the above, the cons greatly outweigh the pros, but i have done it from time to time.

It's ok to play a hand for fun, if that's the reason you may play a hand loosely. The problem is when you play the last 4 for fun.

Lastly, as i want to be done rambling, if it really is getting to you, which it sounds like it may be doing. Take a break for a day or 2. Even in the middle of a bad run, you will come back to it fresher and the losses won't pile up like baggage.

b

ps... In SSH there is a section in the front, gambling concepts or something like that, that Ed talks about staying with it even if things are going bad. (This assumes you're still playing well) He explains it very well in there, imo. To me, it's one of the most important chapters/sections in the book. Probably will be the least reread chapter of anyone buying the book. It may give you some ideas.

[Dov]

[ QUOTE ]
Even if you're just playing a hand for the hell of it. (not making a habit of doing this) Say you're playing JTo by raising in EP. You know you're giving up quite a bit doing this, but you got a wild hair on this one hand. It's not even an image play as you already are getting lots of action. You just want to have fun, maybe blow some steam on this one hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

It took me a long time to get to this point, but this is how I personally know I have hit my tilt point - playing in a way that is suboptimal, the whole time knowing that I know better.

I finally developed the discipline to make sure that when this hand happens, it's my last hand at the table.

I can't tell you how much this has helped my game and my sanity.

Dov

[Al Schoonmaker]

You wrote: "Maybe I think I play very well, but in fact I don't!!!"

MOST people do not play REMOTELY as well as they think they do. Denial of the truth about ourselves is the central theme of my writing. "Overestimating our abilities" specifically relates it to poker. You can read it at cardplayer.com. Click on magazine, writers, and my name.

Countless other writers have made the same general point: People delude themselves about their skills. That's why you hear so many bad beat stories, but hardly ever hear a "good beat" one. A "good beat" story means that the storyteller played badly, but sucked out. If there is a bad beat, there must be a good beat.

Why don't we hear good beat stories? Because people want to believe that they are good, but unlucky. If we're lucky, but still get poor results, it means we don't play that well.

If you have a huge body of data that says your results aren't very good, the most reasonable inference is that you do not play as well as you think.

Incidentally, multi-tabling does NOT have any significant positive effect, but does have a negative one. It is literally impossible to play several games as well as you can play one.

Sorry to be so blunt, but you said you wanted the truth.

Regards,

Al

[Dov]

[ QUOTE ]
Why don't we hear good beat stories?

[/ QUOTE ]

We get quite a few of these around here. They usually end with MHIG.

[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Dov

[Al Schoonmaker]

Please define MHIG.
TY
Al