KQJ10

[pokerstudent211]

Is KQJ10 non suited a calling hand under the gun in a $5-10 game in an aggresive game? In a passive game?

Just curious what opinions you guys may have........thanks

[gergery]

I would fold it rainbow. It is too easy for another straight to be out there. With straights you want to have redraws, and this won't have enough.

[Wintermute]

I play that one any time I can get my hands on it. Of course, I play mainly PLO8. But even in limit O8, I think it's easy to get away from on a bad flop, and very profitable when the flop cooperates. Even rainbow... how often are you going to be banking on a Q-high flush anyhow?

[Ribbo]

KQJT rainbow is a trash speculative hand I would not even consider for a raise in limit O8. Straights are for suckers.

[Wintermute]

In PLO8, however, it is a good holdnig.

In my PTO database, I see that I've played the hand 52 times, win 50% of the time, which gives me 2.5 BB/hand.

For my stats, this happens to be the exact same winrate (BB/hand) as A238, and slightly better than AKK2, incidentally. Now, that's not to say that KQJT is as playable as these other hands, but in the right situation IN PLO8, the hand can (and should) be played profitably.

I can't vouch for limit O8, don't play much limit.

[gergery]

I don’t think it’s a good holding in PLO8. I’d say it might be playable (ie. EV+) under the right circumstances, for a decent player.

And I’d guess you have been running well or lucky with it so far if its been more profitable than AKK2 and A238.

[Wintermute]

I don't think that's the case (that my results with KQJT are a result of good fortune)--keep in mind that this is out of a larger sample of 60k hands, and these KQJT are evenly distributed over those 3 months.

I attribute these stats to two factors:
1) In situations where KQJT isn't going to play well, it's easy to identify that on the flop before bets get expensive.
2) Sort of related, almost always, when KQJT does win for me, it's going to scoop. (I say this because it is virtually impossible to "correctly" stay in a hand with KQJT that also results in a split.)


I'd suggest that the way to resolve this is to get stats from others about their results w/ KQJT hands from pokertracker... I mean, hunches only get us so far--numbers are a little clearer, IMHO.

[Buzz]

[ QUOTE ]
In my PTO database, I see that I've played the hand 52 times

[/ QUOTE ]

Wintermute - Really? Wow!

You must have played a lot of hands.

You figure to get dealt TJQK-rainbow roughly once every eleven thousand deals. (270725/24).

You've played the hand fifty two times? Wow!!! Either you've:
• (1) played about half a million hands of Omaha-8, or
• (2) have a very abnormal distribution, or
• (3) your data base is mixing in some other hands (perhaps suited?) with this one.

I'm amazed that you manage to win half the time with TJQK-rainbow.

I'll only continue playing TJQK-rainbow about a fourth of the time after the flop. The rest of the time the odds are simply too unfavorable.

In a nine handed no-fold-'em simulation, against random hands the hand won the equivalent of scooping roughly 11%. (Actually it scooped 718/10000 and won enough half pots, quarter pots, sixth pots, and eight pots to add up to the equivalent of another 415/10000 whole pots).

You've played it 52 times and you have won with it half the time?

That flies in the face of reality.

Buzz

[Wintermute]

Correct--this isn't just rainbow hands. Suited are included (as are xxxy triple-suited's and yyyy four-suited).

Thanks for clarifying.

[Noor]

Perfect reply, love your style.