"Islam is a peaceful religion"

[JihadOnTheRiver]

Just reading Michael Savage's "Liberalism Is A Mental Disorder" and got some interesting text from the Koran. Just wondering what you guys think. I'm getting pretty tired of hearing people defend Islam...

"I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" (Koran 8:12)

"So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them...and [as for] those who are slain in the way of Allah, He will by no means allow their deeds to perish" (Koran 47:4)

"Allah's Apostle said, '...I have been made victorious with terror'" (Bukhari Vol. 4, Bk. 52, No. 220)

"Allah's Apostle said, 'Killing disbelievers is a small matter to us'" (Tabari IX:69)

The type of rhetoric that I'm speaking of is clearly defined by this quote:

"Islam is the fastest-growing religion in America, a guide and pillar of stability for many of our people" -Hillary Clinton.

[whiskeytown]

I can pull scriptures out of context from the Bible to support the same idea that Christianity/Judism is a violent religion - do you actually think you are actually establishing a point or pattern by reprinting out of context verses from the Koran that a misanthrope spoon fed to you thru his biased viewpoint?

at least TRY to come up with something original

RB

[Usagi_yo]

Put up or shut up. Come up with those quotes from the bible you're talking about ... then show us who is quoting them today as they are actually performing them, and advocating that others do likewise.

[Chris Alger]

"But of the cities of these people, which the LORD thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth: 17 But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee:"
Deuteronomy, 20: 16-17 (KJ)

The Bible is filled with references glorifying subjugation through violence and genocide. Mark Twain described the extermination of the Midianites this way: "There is noting in either savage or civilized history that is more utterly complete, more remorselessly sweeping than the Father of Mercy’s campaign among the Midianites. The official report does not furnish the incidents, episodes, and minor details, it deals only in information in masses: all the virgins, all the men, all the babies, all 'creatures that breathe,' all houses, all cities; it gives you just one vast picture, spread abroad here and there and yonder, as far as eye can reach, of charred ruin and storm-swept desolation; your imagination adds a brooding stillness, an awful hush—the huh of death."
Letters From Earth, XI

[whiskeytown]

and let's not forget verses quoted out of context to justify the crusades, the inquisition, and even racism/lynchings in the South just a few years ago -

My point had nothing to do with Islam and everything to do with a fact that a couple quick snippets from the Koran doesn't not justify an entire viewpoint - for all I know, those are just quotes of leaders...certainly don't have to be commands from Allah -

According to the Bible, the Devil even tried quoting scripture out of context to tempt Jesus - it's an old trick - and I got sick of it years ago in the Christian church, and I know enough snake oil to know when someone is doing it to some other religion's holy writings.

RB

[Felix_Nietsche]

You Can Not Defend the violence eposued in the Koran so you try attack another religion. Nice try but your attempt is hardly an intellectual argument.

[stealyourface]

Do you want more Felix?

[Felix_Nietsche]

Do you want more Felix?
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I don't understand your message.
A poster attempted to defend the violence of Islam by attacking a different religion. It is the classic bait-and-switch tactic. I could care less if people attack Christianity but I like to see people make intellectually honest arguments.

Anyway, I'm not a christian. I'll let christians defend themselves.

[Chris Alger]

Whiskeytown wasn't "attacking" any religion. He pointed out that since Christian scriptures are subject to the same exact criticism as the Koran, then claiming that the Koran is relatively less "peaceful" than Chrisitianity on scriptural grounds is unreasonable. And I'd add: obviously more motivated by racism.

[MMMMMM]

[ QUOTE ]
My point had nothing to do with Islam and everything to do with a fact that a couple quick snippets from the Koran doesn't not justify an entire viewpoint - for all I know, those are just quotes of leaders...certainly don't have to be commands from Allah -

[/ QUOTE ]

Those verses aren't the quotes of various leaders, Whiskey--they are the direct instructions of Allah to mankind for all time, written down by Mohammed as the exact message told to him by the Archangel Gabriel (on behalf of Allah).

The Koran contains the direct instructions of Allah, to mankind, for all time.

You used to study the Bible, as I recall.

Many verses in the Bible, especially in the Old Testament, are given in the historical sense. This is especially true of many of the violent passages.

This is not the same case with the Koran. Nor does the Koran have various authors, and doubts of authorship; nor was it selectively pieced together from many books as was the present-day Bible. It is generally acknowledged by scholars that Mohammed was the sole writer of the Koran.

Also please notice that the Biblical passages referenced in comparison thus far, throughout this thread, are from the Old Testament. The Old Testament mostly relates to pre-Christ history and theology.

Christianity is more of the New Testament than the Old Testament.

If someone wants to compare Islam to Christianity (or actually, to the belief in and followings of the teachings of Jesus Christ), they should be digging out verses from the New Testament. There they won't find verses comparable to the myriad verses in the Koran enjoining present day Muslims to terrorize, kill, torture and subjugate non-believers (remember, the Koran is a book of Allah's instructions good for all time).

There is however ONE verse, to my knowledge, in the New Testament that is is any way comparable to the dozens of such verses in the Koran--and that line exists only in ONE of the Gospels (Luke) and is not corroborated in any other of the Gospels.

So before you or anyone else should presume that Islam is no more violent or totalitarian in nature than Christianity, it might make some sense if you did some research before grabbing on to such a easy and natural opinion.

Another aspect of difference between the two religions is that Jesus did not insist on ruling this Earth, or on forcing people to follow God's law. If someone wanted to go down an evil path, Jesus would let them (though perhaps he might speak to try to dissuade them or make them think twice). Jesus also instructed followers to lay up treasures in heaven rather than on this Earth.

The Koran on the other hand clearly instructs believers that they should rule all of the Earth, thereby carrying out Allah's will--and using force wherever necessary to achieve their goal.

Jesus was a man of peace, not resisting even his own tormentors and executioners. Jesus advised loving one's enemy and turning the other cheek.

Mohammed, by contrast, was a warrior-king: leading over a dozen military expeditions of conquest in his lifetime and participating in dozens more. He promised his soldiers the twin rewards of booty in this world and sensual delights in the next.

Islam is highly concerned with forcing the world to submit to its rule, to God's law. "Islam" in fact means submission (to Allah's will). That part is OK, but the part that is not OK is the philosophical basis and instructions throughout the Koran of forcing others to do so also.

So, before forming a conclusion about the comparison of two religions, it might make sense to know a fair bit about both religions--not just about one.

I say this not to be critical of you, but rather because it is a common mistake I see many otherwise educated Westerners making today. It is more natural to presume the two are roughly equivalent, of course--and that is also a more hopeful presumption. Deeper inspection of the religious texts and philosophical bases of the two religions will however reveal some monumental dissimilarities.

All this of course may mean little when men are predisposed to do evil based upon ANY sort of perceived philosophical or religious justification. However it is still worth discerning what the underlying messages of each religion really are teaching. It is also worth noting the drastically contrasting personal examples of the lives of the founders of both religions.

All of this doesn't mean that Muslims are inherently more violent than Christians. However it does indicate that Islam is inherently more violent than Christianity.