stop trying to 'protect' your hand

[SCfuji]

look unless you can walk over to the other players' houses in the 20 seconds party gives you and point a gun to their heads and threaten them to fold, you won't protect your hand. just bet for value and bet for value and bet for value and bet for value and bet for value. oh, and bet for value. there will be times when you can get more value on your hand by gambling and waiting until later streets or going for check raises, but you won't protect your effing hand. just get the money in when you have the best of it.

[Marquis]

Yeah!

I'm still going to try to protect my hand sometimes though.

[RobMay]

Protecting your hand doesn't always mean you want your opponents to fold - you can protect your hand by making sure anyone who's going to call anyway isn't getting the right odds to beat you.

[KingOtter]

[ QUOTE ]
Protecting your hand doesn't always mean you want your opponents to fold - you can protect your hand by making sure anyone who's going to call anyway isn't getting the right odds to beat you.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the same thing as 'betting for value'.

Because you have more equity in the pot then they do, they are contributing more than their share. So... it is for value.

He didn't say 'stop betting'. He said, 'stop trying to protect your hand'.

KO

[FishHooks]

That is not the same thing as betting for value, they are two different subjects. For example i have K9 and i middle pair of 9's, and someoen bets into me and i raise on the flop to push out draws and to buy some outs, "to protect my hand" this may or may not be the best hand but i'm trying to make it less likly someoen will draw out on me. That is much difffern't that say flopped top 2 pair and raising for value.

[hicherbie]

[ QUOTE ]
That is not the same thing as betting for value, they are two different subjects. For example i have K9 and i middle pair of 9's, and someoen bets into me and i raise on the flop to push out draws and to buy some outs, "to protect my hand" this may or may not be the best hand but i'm trying to make it less likly someoen will draw out on me. That is much difffern't that say flopped top 2 pair and raising for value.

[/ QUOTE ]

when you read a lot of micro posts about protecting your hand, it is refering to how to prevent the noobs from sucking out on you when you have a good hand. (like a set on a drawey board). what fuji was saying was that in a lot of these games protecting your hand just isnt possible...at least to a flush/straight and sometimes two pair draw. with a set on flop w/two to a flush on these games, you should bet/raise the flop for value rather than raise on the turn so that opps will have to face two cold (see my post above for my reasoning). he has quotation marks around protect in the title of this thread because a lot of people dont understand when a hand can and cannot be "protected"

[Sasnak]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
That is not the same thing as betting for value, they are two different subjects. For example i have K9 and i middle pair of 9's, and someoen bets into me and i raise on the flop to push out draws and to buy some outs, "to protect my hand" this may or may not be the best hand but i'm trying to make it less likly someoen will draw out on me. That is much difffern't that say flopped top 2 pair and raising for value.

[/ QUOTE ]

when you read a lot of micro posts about protecting your hand, it is refering to how to prevent the noobs from sucking out on you when you have a good hand. (like a set on a drawey board). what fuji was saying was that in a lot of these games protecting your hand just isnt possible...at least to a flush/straight and sometimes two pair draw. with a set on flop w/two to a flush on these games, you should bet/raise the flop for value rather than raise on the turn so that opps will have to face two cold (see my post above for my reasoning). he has quotation marks around protect in the title of this thread because a lot of people dont understand when a hand can and cannot be "protected"

[/ QUOTE ]

Protecting your hands against a chaser is where the term "Race" comes into play.

How many times have you flopped something decent with 3-4 others in the hand? You know you're a current favorite at the time, but there are two more cards to come.

You grit your teeth and keep clicking the raise button like some old lady in a slot tournament! Then win or lose, you open the HH up to see what the hell these mopes were chasing your @ss down with! LOL

[RobMay]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Protecting your hand doesn't always mean you want your opponents to fold - you can protect your hand by making sure anyone who's going to call anyway isn't getting the right odds to beat you.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the same thing as 'betting for value'.

Because you have more equity in the pot then they do, they are contributing more than their share. So... it is for value.

[/ QUOTE ]

That was exactly my point. The OP seemed to imply that protecting your hand meant forcing a fold. But like you say, so long as you have the equity advantage, you are still protecting your hand by betting for value when it puts your opponents in a lose-lose situation. You you don't care if they fold or call - either way they lose.

The OP's call to 'bet for value' over and over could be taken to mean just bet out when it's your turn to act.

The way I see it, protecting your hand means getting even more value by, for example, check-raising to face your opponents with double bets. Especially in big pots, where even if betting out would be for value, an opponent could still call for value (eg with a gutshot if the pot is offering 10-1).

I think! This thread is making me get my definitions confused!

[SCfuji]

think about the way the posters that have the "how do i protect my hand" posts define "protect". im trying to get through to them in a way that they will understand.

[ QUOTE ]
protecting your hand means getting even more value by, for example, check-raising

[/ QUOTE ]

i did mention you could go for check raises and later streets to show your true strength.

[chopchoi]

I disagree. I can't count the number of times I flopped TPWK in one of the blinds, checked it, had it check all the way around, had higher card come on the turn, and watched someone walk away with a pot that would probably have been mine if only I had bet the flop.