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  #1  
Old 03-06-2005, 02:21 PM
Post-Oak Post-Oak is offline
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Default Too weak tight? Flop bottom set

Live game, 9 players. Table is surprisingly tight so far.

I'm in BB with 2s 2c.

6 players see the flop (no raise)

Flop is 8 - 5 - 2 rainbow

SB bets $60. I call. One fold and then solid player in mid position makes it $170 (raise $110).

Folded back around to me. I fold.
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  #2  
Old 03-06-2005, 02:23 PM
tbach24 tbach24 is offline
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Default Re: Too weak tight? Flop bottom set

Raise the initial bet. Solid player could have an overpair. You gotta raise the intial bet.
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  #3  
Old 03-06-2005, 03:12 PM
b0000000000m b0000000000m is offline
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Default Re: Too weak tight? Flop bottom set

Can you please provide your rationale for raising the initial bet? Is it that raising now provides your opponents with much less information about your hand than raising later? (Are you worried that a raise attempt later will be folded to?)

My question aside--I don't see how you can lay this down at this point.
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  #4  
Old 03-06-2005, 03:19 PM
raptor517 raptor517 is offline
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Default Re: Too weak tight? Flop bottom set

well, doyle brunson once said to not get broke in an unraised pot. on a flop like this, that could happen. however, having said that, i would have to get broke on this hand. i think the likelihood of a hand such as 1010 raising in that spot is too great to get rid of a set of 2s. and as lorinda says on the 1 table tourney forum, when in doubt, river quads.
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  #5  
Old 03-06-2005, 03:29 PM
tbach24 tbach24 is offline
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Default Re: Too weak tight? Flop bottom set

You raise for value.
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  #6  
Old 03-06-2005, 03:48 PM
b0000000000m b0000000000m is offline
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Default Re: Too weak tight? Flop bottom set

I understand this would be a value raise. My question is: Can you please provide an analysis (or just some reasons) that shows that raising for value now (rather than on the turn) is the optimal play?
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  #7  
Old 03-06-2005, 03:49 PM
tbach24 tbach24 is offline
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Default Re: Too weak tight? Flop bottom set

Sorry, it's because people will overplay their overpairs. I think raising here would also provide a bit of deception because who would try to blow their hand on such a drawless board?
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  #8  
Old 03-06-2005, 02:24 PM
raptor517 raptor517 is offline
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Default Re: Too weak tight? Flop bottom set

you absolutely CANT call the first bet and fold to a raise. you have to raise that bet.
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  #9  
Old 03-06-2005, 02:32 PM
John Gaspar John Gaspar is offline
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Default Re: Too weak tight? Flop bottom set

I vote for too tight.

Would he make this same play with 99-JJ? I would imagine so.

It looks like he was the 2nd limper pre-flop. Would he limp with AA-KK if the game was as tight as you say trying to win a big pot, disguise his hand or re-raise a late position raiser?

I would call his raise and lead out the turn with a blocking bet. If he is on a higher set, he'll play back at you. If not he'll throw his hand away or flat call. Lather, rinse repeat.
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  #10  
Old 03-06-2005, 02:47 PM
eoinak eoinak is offline
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Default Re: Too weak tight? Flop bottom set

As allready said he can easy make this move with an overpair. Reraise to find out where you are, or else call and bet the next street
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