Born in the US but not American?

sirio11 · #1 12-17-2005, 06:07 PM

What is your take on the proposal to deny citizenship to babies born in the United States to illegal immigrants?

Besides the obvious satisfaction that these proposals bring to all the racist zealots in the US; Is there a rationale behind the proposal?

elwoodblues · #2 12-17-2005, 06:17 PM

There is a proposal to amend the constitution for this? Silly.

If you are born in the US, you are a US citizen. If someone is seriously proposing this, it will go nowhere. Not only would it not go anywhere absent the constitutional provision, but the enhanced requirements of a constitutional amendment would make it absolutely dead in the water.

BCPVP · #3 12-17-2005, 06:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
There is a proposal to amend the constitution for this? Silly.

If you are born in the US, you are a US citizen. If someone is seriously proposing this, it will go nowhere. Not only would it not go anywhere absent the constitutional provision, but the enhanced requirements of a constitutional amendment would make it absolutely dead in the water.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not so sure. I responded to sirio in the mexican wall thread with this poll . It seems to me that the majority of Americans are pretty upset about illegal immigration and if you get rid of that loophole as well as increase enforcement, you would reduce the amount of illegals.

elwoodblues · #4 12-17-2005, 10:57 PM

I don't know if I'd call the first sentence of the 14th Amendment a loophole...

Even if there are a lot of people upset about it, it takes a lot more than a majority to amend the constitution.

Oblomov · #5 12-17-2005, 06:18 PM

The rationale is not to reward illegal immigration. Obviously not the most humane policy though.

NobodysFreak · #6 12-17-2005, 06:37 PM

I think a lot of the problems stem from auxillery problems from illegal immigration. For instance, its unlikely that a pregnant mexicam laborer has health insurance or the money to pay for a hospital visit, but the hospital can't refuse them. This means that rates go up for everyone else. Schooling is the same way. No SSN means no taxes means you aren't paying for all of the public works projects, but you're enjoying the benefit. I don't think this measure will get very far, but I think a guest worker program might alleviate some of the problems associated with undocumented illegal immigrants.

#7 12-17-2005, 06:55 PM

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...No SSN means no taxes...

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This, actually, is sometimes +EV for the US. When undocumented workers pay taxes, and in many cases they do thru automatic withholding, they don't get a refund - they don't file. And the FICA portion is never credited to their phony SSN number.

Not a major point, but a lot of folks don't think about that.

NobodysFreak · #8 12-17-2005, 07:14 PM

I would think most would have to be paid in cash, right? The business might pay taxes, but I don't see how anyone without a SSN could get a checking account. Ofcourse, this lends itself to those check-cashing places which really just rip people with no SSN off, but that's a whole different can of worms.

#9 12-17-2005, 08:05 PM

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I would think most would have to be paid in cash, right?

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They don't have to be paid in cash. Some are, yes. Many get checks. And like you say, "rip-off (but perfectly legal) joints" make a ton cashing their checks. And so does Western Union when they move the funds to Mexico and other points South.

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The business might pay taxes, but I don't see how anyone without a SSN could get a checking account.

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The businesses paying by check usually pay the taxes. Some just withhold and don't report. Undocumented workers usually don't have a need for checking accounts.

JackWhite · #10 12-17-2005, 07:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]
What is your take on the proposal to deny citizenship to babies born in the United States to illegal immigrants?

Besides the obvious satisfaction that these proposals bring to all the racist zealots in the US; Is there a rationale behind the proposal?

[/ QUOTE ]

If some women are having their babies in the US to get their kids citizenship, then this amendment might reduce that. That seems like a rationale. Of course, we all know that anybody who opposes illegal immigration is a racist zealot, so it is irrelevant if there are any rationale arguments anyway.