You might hate the way I played this hand

Henke · #1 07-19-2005, 09:05 AM

Hope you aren't biased by the title [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Anyway, SB here is a true callingstation, a dream to play against! I haven't seen him raise yet, but he's been calling down with at least A-high hands. MP is quite a nice player to have in the pot also. A lot tighter than SB postflop, but very predictable. Will bet into the aggressor when his hand improves, but haven't seen him raise yet. BB is the only half reasonable player, maybe a tad weak-tight post flop.

I have been having quite a loose agressive (preflop) image at the table, but for the last couple of laps, the hands have dried up a bit, so I haven't made a preflop raise in a while. Also, postflop my agression has usually gone down quite a bit (been checking more hands than usual on the flop after a pf-raise).

On to the hand:

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP calls, Hero raises, SB (Callingstation) calls, BB calls, MP calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
Callingstation checks, BB checks, MP checks, Hero bets, Callingstation calls, BB folds, MP calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Callingstation checks, MP checks, Hero bets, Callingstation calls, MP folds.

River: (7.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Callingstation checks, Hero bets, Callingstation folds.

Final Pot: 8.50 BB

Griovejas · #2 07-19-2005, 09:10 AM

Do you always bet the flop in this situation?

Henke · #3 07-19-2005, 09:25 AM

No, almost never.

toss · #4 07-19-2005, 09:20 AM

Why are you betting the turn with an OESD against a callingstation? I'd take a free card. The raise PF seems marginal and I don't like betting that flop since we have like no hand.

Henke · #5 07-19-2005, 10:06 AM

Why are you betting the turn with an OESD against a callingstation?

Because MP is still around. And also, I can go for the free showdown UI (hopefully only against CS). If I can fold MP, I probably have around 55% chance of winning this pot UI in a showdown.

topspin · #6 07-19-2005, 10:33 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Why are you betting the turn with an OESD against a callingstation?

I can go for the free showdown UI (hopefully only against CS)

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
SB here is a true callingstation, a dream to play against! I haven't seen him raise yet, but he's been calling down with at least A-high hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

So the calling station is the sort of person who makes the horrible mistake of calling down to the river with A-high, and you're determined to value-bet Q-high so that his calldowns will actually be correct?

Henke · #7 07-19-2005, 11:27 AM

The bet is not a valuebet, but a shot at pushing MP out of the pot. Also, maybe I should have made this more clear in the original post, the callingstation had previously called a bet on every round including the river with A high. However, he called with far more hands up to the river... But as I saw it, with only the callingstation in the hand, I should be able to value bet QQ, JJ and any str8 on the river, and check the rest through. That would give me implied odds if I hit Q, J or str8, and I would still probably win around 50% on the river UI by taking the free showdown.

topspin · #8 07-19-2005, 12:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The bet is not a valuebet, but a shot at pushing MP out of the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
the callingstation had previously called a bet on every round including the river with A high.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? The proection concept is misapplied if you don't have the best hand -- "protecting" queen high when you're pretty sure that someone else (1) has at least ace high and (2) is willing to show it down the majority of the time is bad.

In other words, it doesn't help you if you force MP out but the calling station calls, since you'll only win if you hit one of your outs. Unless you think you're buying some Q and J outs (which on this board I highly doubt), this bet is just donating chips.

[ QUOTE ]
I would still probably win around 50% on the river UI by taking the free showdown.

[/ QUOTE ]

If this were true then your turn bet would be better. But according to your read, the calling station has shown down at least ace-high in his calldowns. What makes you so sure that 50% of the time he's going to call down with jack-high?

Nilbud · #9 07-19-2005, 09:23 AM

OK, I'll give this a shot.

Based on what I've been learning about pot equity, I'd say betting this flop is incorrect, but you have the button and your opponents play is predictable, so it's not a bad idea, as they'll let you know if they improve (the calling station to a lesser extent).

If they check to you on the turn, I probably take the free card.

I'd like to hear from a more experienced player whether or not the equity edge goes out the window when deciding whether to bet when you have the button against weak opponents...any volunteers?

ArturiusX · #10 07-19-2005, 09:44 AM

I check/fold the flop.

Check-call the river, how you played it I bet the turn.

Too aggressive with no equity. You dont have a hand, this is small stakes we dont bluff people. Play NL for bluffs like this.