Online 15-30 hand #118 - did I miss a river bet?

nykenny · #1 07-10-2004, 01:38 PM

bet or check on river?

Online Poker 15/30 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 raises, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO calls, Button folds, SB calls, Hero 3-bets, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, CO calls, SB calls.

Flop: (15 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 folds, MP2 folds, CO calls, SB folds.

Turn: (8.50 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, CO calls.

River: (10.50 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO checks.

Final Pot: 10.50 BB
Main Pot: 10.50 BB, between CO and Hero. > Pot won by Hero (10.50 BB).

Noo Yawk · #2 07-10-2004, 02:06 PM

Hi kenny,

Bet the river.
Most of the time he's got a King and is always paying you off with it.

ike · #3 07-10-2004, 02:16 PM

Why does he usually have a king? He raised utg, so the only reasonable K hands are AK and KQ. KQ beats you and AK would almost always have raised that flop.
edit: If this guy is capable of having things like KJ or KT here the bet seems fine, but against typical opposition that queen beats you a huge percentage of the time.

Inthacup · #4 07-10-2004, 02:59 PM

I think JJ or 10 10 would play it like this as well.

Cup

Noo Yawk · #5 07-10-2004, 03:18 PM

KQ would likely have raised the turn. As others pointed out JJ and TT are also likely to play this way.
As far as raising standards up front for a typical player, I've seen worse Kings than KQ get raised up front. Without knowing the player, I keep betting.
Now if we described the player as tight up front, well then I might agree with a check on the river.

Nate tha' Great · #6 07-10-2004, 03:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]
KQ would likely have raised the turn. As others pointed out JJ and TT are also likely to play this way.
As far as raising standards up front for a typical player, I've seen worse Kings than KQ get raised up front. Without knowing the player, I keep betting.
Now if we described the player as tight up front, well then I might agree with a check on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't get these comments, since it is the cold caller in the CO who is hanging around, and not the preflop raiser UTG.

Noo Yawk · #7 07-10-2004, 04:19 PM

Oh crap! You're right Nate. Just replace my UTG comments with what a typical player will cold call with and play that way.
[img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

nykenny · #8 07-10-2004, 03:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
KQ would likely have raised the turn. As others pointed out JJ and TT are also likely to play this way.
As far as raising standards up front for a typical player, I've seen worse Kings than KQ get raised up front. Without knowing the player, I keep betting.
Now if we described the player as tight up front, well then I might agree with a check on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

it seems most people think we need to know THAT much about the opponents to play profitably. but in reality, one rarely gets the chance to, especially in online games, more especially multi-tabling.

for what it's worth, the CO had A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. he missed his draw on the river and decided against bluffing.

the main reason i checked is that i didn't want to call a raise on the river. and i believe it is very likely a busted draw would take a desperate stab after missing. also, a queen was very likely there. moreover, a good King would probably bet the river anyway.

thus i felt, in most cases i wouldn't miss bet; and in some cases i would gain one by calling a bluff or very bad hand; at last in rare cases, i would only lose one bet to the rivered Q.

Kenny

1800GAMBLER · #9 07-10-2004, 03:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think it's a great card to induce a bluff from a hand like AJ or KJ or A9 a diamond draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think people way way overestimate the line of, Bet-call. Bet-Call. Check, player wakes up all of a sudden and bets. It rarely happens in the 15/30. What happens a lot is A high calls on the river with a hope, and moreso on the paired board.

Infact, if i was playing with marked cards and somehow knew he had Axs it would be a very close decision for me against a unknown party player if i should bet for value or induce a bluff.

1800GAMBLER · #10 07-10-2004, 03:01 PM

The problem is you have to pay off the raise. But i really think even AQ plays it more aggressively on the flop. I think it's mostl TT JJ though.