Misplayed TT

#1 07-20-2005, 02:33 AM

This was the hand. No reads on the table yet.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) http://216.119.70.224/converter/hhconverter.pl

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 fold, MP1 calls, Hero raises, 2 folds, Button 3-bets, 2 folds, UTG calls, MP1 calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (13.50 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG bets, MP1 calls, Hero raises, Button 3-bets, UTG calls, MP1 folds, Hero calls.

At this point I think I may be behind an overpair.

Turn: (11.75 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG bets, Hero folds, Button calls.

When UTG bets into me after being raised the previous round, I am really worried. I think he may have flopped two pair or something to be able to bet into a raiser and re-raiser. So I fold here.

River: (13.75 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG bets, Button calls.

Final Pot: 15.75 BB

And then I see the results. Puke!

How could I have played this hand differently
Results in white below: 
UTG has 7h Ah (two pair, sevens and twos).
Button has 9h 9s (two pair, nines and twos).
Outcome: Button wins 15.75 BB.

Cumulonimbus · #2 07-20-2005, 02:39 AM

This would be easier with reads. It looks like UTG is bluff-representing that 2, so I wouldn't worry about him too much. I'd actually consider calling down with reads of aggressiveness by the PFR. He could have 99 and 88 too, or maybe a flush draw or two high cards.

#3 07-20-2005, 02:41 AM

I agree. Waiting on my product key(just bought pokertracker). It can't get here soon enough!

MVicuna · #4 07-20-2005, 03:39 AM

Hi,

Your right, it was badly played. Cap preflop, cap the flop, you sucked out on two pair on the turn so raise again. *only* then can you fold your tens if you get 3 bet.

Later,
MarkV.

aK13 · #5 07-20-2005, 04:58 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Hi,

Your right, it was badly played. Cap preflop, cap the flop, you sucked out on two pair on the turn so raise again. *only* then can you fold your tens if you get 3 bet.

Later,
MarkV.

[/ QUOTE ]

Capping preflop and capping the flop would be super spew w/o a read.

I call down at the turn, unless its 2 to me

baronzeus · #6 07-20-2005, 12:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hi,

Your right, it was badly played. Cap preflop, cap the flop, you sucked out on two pair on the turn so raise again. *only* then can you fold your tens if you get 3 bet.

Later,
MarkV.

[/ QUOTE ]

Capping preflop and capping the flop would be super spew w/o a read.

I call down at the turn, unless its 2 to me

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This is not true. I cap the flop every time with JJ here, and since he has 2 opponents, he can cap with TT.

jjacky · #7 07-20-2005, 07:19 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Hi,

Your right, it was badly played. Cap preflop, cap the flop, you sucked out on two pair on the turn so raise again. *only* then can you fold your tens if you get 3 bet.

Later,
MarkV.

[/ QUOTE ]

your advice is terrible.

MVicuna · #8 07-20-2005, 11:38 AM

Hi,

TT is a capping hand preflop because there are only *4* hands better then it preflop. There are no monsters under the bed.

EVEN if you get raised on the flop, there quiet a few hands that will raise there due to it being a 7 high flop AND it having a two flush on it.

And if this pot is to big to not put in two more BB to see a showdown, its worth the extra BB to raise the turn to see what LP guy does because if you just call you could be whipsawed or raised anyways and have to pay the 3BB to see a showdown everyone seems so commited too.

Raise the turn and fold if its 3 bet. Just calling the turn bet is weak and gives to many hands cheap draws. Here is an explination as to why.

Anyhand that raises your 3 bet has you beat and would have raised you anyways if you'd just called and then they would have bet the river. So you pay 3BB to see a showdown and lose.

Yes, better hands will call your turn raise and then call your river bet, but if there is *any* chance of getting JJ/TT/AK/AQ to fold the turn you *must* take it. Getting AK/AQ to fold the turn in this huge pot is a huge win as is making them pay 2BB to see a river.

You bet then bet river. Yes, TT/JJ/QQ/KK/AA that wussed out may still call, but worse hands will call, its 2/4 after all, and a better hand may fold. Its unlikely an over pair to your ten folds, but If you cap preflop/flop/raise the turn/bet the river/ There is a remote chance they fold. And you PAY the same amount to see a showdown while extracting more from the worse hands.

Later,
MarkV.

crunchy1 · #9 07-20-2005, 11:51 AM

[ QUOTE ]
TT is a not capping hand preflop against 3 opponents because there are *4* hands that dominate it and another 90-some combinations that it's even money to preflop all of which are about the only hands that fit into an unknown, PF 3-bettor's range.

[/ QUOTE ]
FYP.

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if there is *any* chance of getting JJ/TT/AK/AQ to fold the turn you *must* take it.

[/ QUOTE ]
There isn't any chance of folding a top pair on the turn. They all just made two pair and are calling down or raising (as Hero should have).

MVicuna · #10 07-20-2005, 01:32 PM

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[ QUOTE ]
if there is *any* chance of getting JJ/TT/AK/AQ to fold the turn you *must* take it.

[/ QUOTE ]
There isn't any chance of folding a top pair on the turn. They all just made two pair and are calling down or raising (as Hero should have).

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You know your advice was *exactly* the same in the post you made in this same thread and you listed this EXACT same reason.

Also, with two EP limpers its likely they hold some of the reraisers over cards in their hands making it less likely they have them two of them or will hit them on the flop. So your equity in this hand stays at over 50% while two over cards hands shrink to 30% with just 1 out gone.

So when your dominated your cap loses 0.8SB of EV and when your ahead your cap gains 2SB of EV. Not capping TT preflop is wrong with 3 opponents unless we are 100% certain then have an over pair.

So let me restate it clearly. TT is a 50% favorite to win the pot with *three* opponents as its likely the one of their over cards is in some elses hand given two EP limpers.

I hope this is clear, and don't muddy the water saying the EP limpers don't have to have the re-raisers outs, its more likely they do then not.

Later,
MarkV.