AK monotone

BottlesOf · #1 06-17-2004, 03:14 PM

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 raises, Hero 3-bets, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, MP2 calls.

Flop: (7.40 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP2 checks, Hero bets, MP2 calls.

Turn: (4.70 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP2 bets, Hero calls.

River: (6.70 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP2 bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 8.70 BB
Main Pot: 8.70 BB, between MP2 and Hero.

barrett · #2 06-17-2004, 03:19 PM

Looks perfect to me.

lostinthought · #3 06-17-2004, 03:22 PM

I'm tempted to raise the turn and represent more than what I have, and fold to a re-raise. Is this too aggressive?

But going to the showdown calling is probably fine.

sfer · #4 06-17-2004, 03:25 PM

I thought about this but I don't think a better hand folds to a turn raise.

J.R. · #5 06-17-2004, 05:11 PM

Isn't the point of the turn raise to charge a lone spade, not to fold AQ or AT (although you wouldn't mind it). If opponent is such that a hand you are drawing live against if behind won't 3-bet (which seems likely given the 3-flush and your preflop 3-bet), you are better off raising the turn unless opponent is on a total bluff and would have continued and bluffed the river had you just called the turn.

colgin · #6 06-17-2004, 05:00 PM

I think this one is pretty player dependent. Against a total unknown I would probably call it all the way down, although I would not feel too good about it. I see no point in raising the turn. Geez, I know I am going to get flamed for this but what the hell. There are quite a few players against whom I could probably fold this on the turn and definitely fold this on the river when I did not improve.

A tricky player here who was trying to move you off a hand (and it does look like you have AK in this spot) would go for a checkraise on the flop or turn. This has all the signs of a simple opponent who may even want to go for a checkraise on the turn when he has made his hand but is too afraid that it will somehow get checked through and bets instead. Yes, Party does have crazy players. But unless that is your read on this person, would he really bet out something like KQ or QJ against your likely Ace. And then bet again on the river. I think you are probably up against AQ, QT, QQ, (and possibly a made flush, althugh not likely). Again, this would be a tough laydown to make, but against the right opponent -- a straight forward simple one I think you can. I don't know if that was the opponent you were up against here.

Edit: I would add that even if you had a correct read here as I described above you might want to call down anyway so as not to encourage others to take shots at you in heads-up confrontations. That would really depend on the table though.

Dominic · #7 06-17-2004, 07:19 PM

good thought process, Colgin...although I may agree with the others and say raise the turn, fold to a re-raise. check-calling does the same thing I guess, although you lose the opportunity of the guy folding on your raise. Not likely, I know...but I don't see him suddenly waking up with a flush on the turn with that bet...he'd want you to bet and then check-raise you...so yeah...AQ, 10Q...don't think it's QQ...interesting hand, all the same.

Yeknom58 · #8 06-17-2004, 08:04 PM

The fact that he could easily have a single spade here is an excellent reason to raise.

colgin · #9 06-18-2004, 07:57 AM

[ QUOTE ]
The fact that he could easily have a single spade here is an excellent reason to raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you knew that your opponent was just on a draw here with a singleton spade then I would raise here too. However, given the way that the hand was played I think it is much more likely that Hero is behind to his opponent (whose hand may or may not include a spade) than ahead of a spade draw. Since the only hand that I think would fold to a raise is one that you would hope keeps bluffing at the pot I think a call is far better than a raise.

J.R. · #10 06-18-2004, 10:17 AM

Since the only hand that I think would fold to a raise is one that you would hope keeps bluffing at the pot I think a call is far better than a raise.

Yeah, but the board is scary so 2 pair may not 3-bet. Unless opponent is very aggressive, I think a typical opponent wouldn't 3-bet a hand hero was drawing live against (i.e. a set or flush will 3-bet, but I don't think a spade draw and/or two pair will 3-bet.)

If that's the case, you can raise the turn and check behind, which still costing you 2 big bets but you charge the spade draw 2 bets. The downsides are 1) you lose a bet if you opponent was bluffing and folds the turn when they would have bet the river again had you called the turn, or 2) if opponent was very aggressive and would 3-bet the turn with a hand you are drawing live against. leading you to make a FTOP error, or 3) would bet many rivers after you raise the turn, which prevents you from getting to a showdown for just 2 big bets and creates a tough river decision.

The more inclined your opponent is to semi-bluff the more I like a turn raise, unless your opponent is so aggressive as to 3-bet a hand you wouldn't fold against were this an open-hand problem or your opponent is highly likely to be bluffing and would have follow thru with a river bluff.