Standard...?

[aK13]

Live 8/16 hand 9 handed -- Table is loose as always and mixed with passive/aggressive play

I'm MP with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

2 limp (who obviously know nothing about position), I raise, Button cold-calls, and the blinds can't let their chips go to waste so they call, limpers call.

6 to the flop for 12SB: J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
SB checks, BB bets, 1 limper calls, 1 limper drops, I call....

[toss]

I do the same on such a coordinated flop.

Are you planning on raising a blank on the turn? That's what I would do, just not sure if it's right.

[miami32]

No I think you have to raise for information/value. You have no idea where you are plus you need to make other draws pay and maybe make this pot heads up. By calling you are playing way to passively I think.

[speirs]

No I think this is a clear case of calling the flop and raising a safe turn. The flop is scary and the turn can completely destroy your hand.

[rmarotti]

[ QUOTE ]
No I think you have to raise for information/value. You have no idea where you are plus you need to make other draws pay and maybe make this pot heads up. By calling you are playing way to passively I think.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is wrong in a lot of ways.

[Greg J]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No I think you have to raise for information/value. You have no idea where you are plus you need to make other draws pay and maybe make this pot heads up. By calling you are playing way to passively I think.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is wrong in a lot of ways.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes it is.

1) "Charging the draws" is flawed logic. Anyone who is on a flush draw is actually benefitting from raising here. They are not being "charged" or "punished" in any way.

2) This fallacy leads to thinking raising for information is a good idea. It's isn't here. Flush draws and straight draws gain by raising (whether the people with the draws know it or not), so a raise for information is certainly not called for -- they could have a made hand or be correctly betting a powerful draw.

My first reaction is to raise this flop too, but I think, upon thinking about it, that a call is the proper play. You don't want to pump the pot for a guy who does not know enough to pump up the pot himself. There is a good chance that some clown limped in with suited crap and now has a flush draw, but is clueless enough to want to see the next street as cheaply as possible. Make him pay for his mistake by NOT raising!

[oreogod]

[ QUOTE ]
No I think you have to raise for information/value. You have no idea where you are plus you need to make other draws pay and maybe make this pot heads up. By calling you are playing way to passively I think.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like to spew,
because I dont know what to do.
What Im saying, trying to bust this rhyme,
that this aint the time
to pay a dime
when the Turn can put u behind.
You have top pair, but u put in another bet here,
common knowledge says
its possible you gonna have to bear
the pain of a re-raise

[rmarotti]

You've got a little work to do before you match Mix-Mastah Shant, but these words is tight, yo. holla.

(I am white)

[Dagger78]

If you're planning on raising a safe turn card I like it. Some players might get agressive with JQ, or a flush draw, and raising here won't let you know where you stand. The turn raise will either get you the information you need or get your raise in when your equity is much higher.