Dealing with fish

I've been playing on Fortune (.5/1) since i get rakeback. The players there are generally pretty awful and i am up 52BB overall right now. The problem is not so much the variance (which has been huge) but the way the variance comes about. I started up 60BB, then down to 0, then up to 100 (as of yesterday) then went all the way back down to 52 today.

Now I know variance is part of the game, but I'm having trouble dealing with it when then downswings happen because of terrible plays by opponents. Here's a snippet of the last hand I played before quitting:

Hand #120454089 at table: Table TH 705
Started: Sat Oct 22 02:51:44 2005

heret1k is at seat 1 with 2.25
Hennej is at seat 2 with 19.50
kegyetlen is at seat 3 with 16.25
tonidani is at seat 4 with 60.25
Betty6 is at seat 5 with 29.75
CH-Luke is at seat 6 with 10.50
manuavi is at seat 7 with 18.00
Oliver28 is at seat 8 with 13.20
rafik is at seat 9 with 34.50
lukeduke72 is at seat 10 with 30.75

lukeduke72 posts the large blind 0.50
rafik posts the small blind 0.25

rafik: --, --
lukeduke72: --, --
heret1k: Kh, Jc
Hennej: --, --
kegyetlen: --, --
tonidani: --, --
Betty6: --, --
CH-Luke: --, --
manuavi: --, --
Oliver28: --, --

Pre-flop:

heret1k: Call 0.50
Hennej: Fold
kegyetlen: Call 0.50
tonidani: Call 0.50
Betty6: Call 0.50
CH-Luke: Call 0.50
manuavi: Fold
Oliver28: Raise 1.00
rafik: Fold
lukeduke72: Raise 1.50
heret1k: Call 1.50
kegyetlen: Fold
tonidani: Call 1.50
Betty6: Call 1.50
CH-Luke: Call 1.50
Oliver28: Raise 2.00
lukeduke72: Call 2.00
heret1k: Call 2.00
tonidani: Call 2.00
Betty6: Call 2.00
CH-Luke: Call 2.00

Flop (Board: Qc, 4s, 5s):

lukeduke72: Bet 0.50
heret1k: Fold


Now it's obvious I'm a bit on tilt, but here's the thing. lukeduke72 only had A9s, yet played as if he had AA or some other monster hand. He continued to bet like that throughout the hand. The result? He had Ace high and lost to 33 (I actually would have won the hand had i thrown in my last quarter, ironically. Makes me even more annoyed). Also notice all the callers, even to 3 raises.

Now here's what I want to ask:

1) How do I deal with downswings caused by other players playing awful but getting lucky, versus just being outplayed by better players? I mean if I just went down in the second fashion, I wouldn't feel nearly as shitty as I do right now. I just feel.. like even with all my reading of SSHE and studying hands here and elsewhere, the ill effects of getting beaten out by donks who play like they're on acid doesn't make it feel worth it very much.

2) Is playing these type of people really HELPING my game? I mean if I move up limits in the future my opponents won't be like this (for example I'll be able to put people on hands a bit more, protect my hand etc. where right now it's just a crapshoot, everyone bets on everything).

I just feel lost and hopefully some people here could give me some pointers. I'm pretty new to the game and obviously want to play my best, but stuff like this makes it hard to figure out what that is. Thanks.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
but I'm having trouble dealing with it when then downswings happen because of terrible plays by opponents

[/ QUOTE ]

Ironic statement.

You can start by playing alot better than you did this hand.

Edit: Upon checking, I see you're getting involved in the strategy forums. That's a great start.

b

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
but I'm having trouble dealing with it when then downswings happen because of terrible plays by opponents

[/ QUOTE ]

Ironic statement.

You can start by playing alot better than you did this hand.

Edit: Upon checking, I see you're getting involved in the strategy forums. That's a great start.

b

[/ QUOTE ]

i did say i was on tilt somewhat.

so my statement wasn't really that ironic overall, as most of the time i think i am playing quite well (TAGish).

it's just very frustrating to (most of the time), finally get a good hand after 5-10 folds in a row, play it well, and get sucked out by players who shouldn't have been in the hand in the first place. what the hell do i learn from that either?

[bernie]

After reading this thread...

Sigh....You realize we get this type of thread all the time, right?

[ QUOTE ]
i did say i was on tilt somewhat.

so my statement wasn't really that ironic overall, as most of the time i think i am playing quite well (TAGish).

[/ QUOTE ]

Everyone, even fish, have whatever reasons they have for playing sh*tty. Tilt, boredom, lucky hand, had a feeling, sudden inspiration or just action, etc....And funny, everyone thinks they play great. Especially if they win a session or 2. But god forbid they lose a couple hands, then the whole world is against them and it just couldn't be their own games, oh no, HAS to be the fish on the tables fault.

Start by quit blaming them. It's your problem, not theirs.

The fact you chose to still play while on tilt makes you just as bad as the ones you're complaining about. Worse actually, since you recognize it but choose to still play.

I'd suggest studying alot more. Especially basic concepts. Especially the micro/small stakes forum. I'd concentrate with starting hands and build from there. You're statments show some gaps in your thinking. Some big gaps that tend to compound themselves into nice leaks.

Statements like:
[ QUOTE ]
and get sucked out by players who shouldn't have been in the hand in the first place.

[/ QUOTE ]

tell us lots about where you're at in your game. Yes, they should have been in the hand in the first place. You should want them there. That's where you're profit comes from. You don't want to be getting regularly beaten by players who start with better starting hands than you do. That generally means you'd be the one playing with the worst of it most of the time.

Another thing to learn? How to analyze a hand and realize winning poker has really nothing to do with winning pots, but how you play until the pot is pushed.

This also clues us as to your game:

[ QUOTE ]
it's just very frustrating to (most of the time), finally get a good hand after 5-10 folds in a row,

[/ QUOTE ]

Holy sh*t!?! 5-10 folds in a row!?! Good god, what next? A tough hurdle is to admit you may not be as great as you think you are. (There's that 'don't blame the fish thing)

I mean, hell, what're you going to do when you go about 40-80+ hands and that happens? It will. More often than you think. Get used to it if you want to play anywhere close to seriously.

[ QUOTE ]
and get sucked out by players who shouldn't have been in the hand in the first place. what the hell do i learn from that either?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, if you don't learn how to handle this or these types of games, your game will be very limited. Especially in the profit dept.

I'd suggest staying at your current limit until you can beat it regularly and the suckouts don't bother you. Moving up will only teach you lessons at a higher cost.

The first step is being honest with yourself about your game. Most responses in this thread see what you're not seeing and have tried to point you in the right direction.

Good luck.

b

you're right, and I know i def. need to study more, but just try not to berate me. There's a difference between tough love and just punishment.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
you're right, and I know i def. need to study more, but just try not to berate me. There's a difference between tough love and just punishment.

[/ QUOTE ]

My aim wasn't to berate you. My goal was to cut the fluff and go str8 to the point. Especially when the thread starts to get a bit whiny.

I mentioned earlier that I thought you were well on the right track since you've made the effort already in some of the other strategy forums.

For instance, the fact you recognize when you are on tilt puts you ahead of many. However, that's not enough. You have to act on it in a +EV way. Which can mean quitting a session even though you are on a table full of morons.

I'd get even more involved. Keep responding to hand posts comparing your thoughts to theirs along with the reasoning behind your suggestions.

It's not an easy game. It's a tough, brutal and mean game where your edge isn't near as big as many would like to think.


b

[runout_mick]

Ummm, no offense, but why you fold to the bet on the flop is waaaay beyond me... you're getting roughly 14.75 billion to one odds there.

If this is indicative of your typical play, I think you may want to spend a little time studying some of the basic basics of the game before you pursue it any further.

[ QUOTE ]
Ummm, no offense, but why you fold to the bet on the flop is waaaay beyond me... you're getting roughly 14.75 billion to one odds there.

If this is indicative of your typical play, I think you may want to spend a little time studying some of the basic basics of the game before you pursue it any further.

[/ QUOTE ]

why can't people just read my posts completely. I SAID I WAS ON TILT!!!

why was i on tilt? well that's exactly what i mentioned and asked questions about. questions i guess which will never be answered because you focus on what is instead irrelevant.

[runout_mick]

[ QUOTE ]

why can't people just read my posts completely

[/ QUOTE ]

I did read it, and I mean no offense, but it seems (from this one snippet), that you have MUCH bigger problems than the "fish" sucking out on you, or the brown end of variance.

I sincerely hope you believe me when I say this is not a flame post, just an honest critique in the spirit of being helpful.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

why can't people just read my posts completely

[/ QUOTE ]

I did read it, and I mean no offense, but it seems (from this one snippet), that you have MUCH bigger problems than the "fish" sucking out on you, or the brown end of variance.

I sincerely hope you believe me when I say this is not a flame post, just an honest critique in the spirit of being helpful.

[/ QUOTE ]

yes because that was a snippet of me on tilt. i.e. i don't normally play like that whatsoever. that's what tilt is, a player playing substantially worse than normal. what is so hard to understand?