Some of these guys are your opponents

zuluking · #1 10-04-2004, 10:44 AM

Check out these comments on AA while I was browsing cardplayer.com

All hold em hands, should be considered just another starting hand.

Even AA, will lose one fifth of the time, when hot and cold against another pair.

Actually they do get cracked about half the time.

In online low limit holdem AA is nothing more than an above average starting hand. When playing AA in low limit holdem your post-flop philosophy should still be "fit-or-fold".

Having a big pocket pair like AA, KK or QQ are great starting hands, but will be beaten if there are many other callers.

you need to consider the hands you do play (except AA) as JUST a starting hand and not put any more value into it. Once you learn that lesson, you save lots of money.

I agree with you totaly.
AA is also nothing but a starting hand, just as every other starting hand.

Well AA i wouldn't say you HAVE to raise people out although it would be recommended. Smooth-calling does have it's place.

I would say that if I lose one fifth of the time with AA, I would be happy about it. That´s great odds.

sprmario · #2 10-04-2004, 10:48 AM

Some dude called a raise and reraise in the big blind last night w/ 64o and his reasoning was truly amazing. At one point he said:

What you fail to realize is that with all the raises and calling that a lot of the big cards were out in people's hands and I am more likely to hit the flop.

Of course he made trip 6s on the river to rake in a huge pot and one guy was giving him hell. It was a very funny read [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

Manimal 42 · #3 10-04-2004, 02:28 PM

In a tourney last night I got AA in the BB.

We were down to 139 players from the original 376 and the blinds were 50/100

1 caller, 1 raised, one called the raise. I was slightly below average but moving well so I moved all-in figuring either to match up against AK, a lower pair or just grab the pot. Everyone folded but the SB who called w 9 8s.

The 9 paired on the flop and the 8 at the river thus killing 90 mins of decent tourney play.

I didn't go Helmuth or anything but I did wish the caller a short and dissapointing tourney.

Was I wrong to go all-in there? I've also heard some Tv comment that AA wins about 60% of the time from before the flop. How does one get a figure like that?

MicroBob · #4 10-04-2004, 02:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
What you fail to realize is that with all the raises and calling that a lot of the big cards were out in people's hands and I am more likely to hit the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is actually SOME validity to this imo....but not enough to justify varying one's actions.

If the table had been reasonably normal (not ultra-loose) and you can actually read your opponents as being unlikely to cold-call unless they had high-cards then it is possible that he is very slightly more likely to hit a flop to his liking.
So slight is this possible 'advantage' (this word really doesn't apply here) that it pretty much doesn't matter.

Blarg · #5 10-04-2004, 07:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Some dude called a raise and reraise in the big blind last night w/ 64o and his reasoning was truly amazing. At one point he said:

What you fail to realize is that with all the raises and calling that a lot of the big cards were out in people's hands and I am more likely to hit the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sketchy logic at best, but it actually sometimes does apply to stud a good bit.

astroglide · #6 10-04-2004, 11:08 AM

they don't get cracked half the time, they get cracked a little over 20% of the time. people UNDERESTIMATE the impact of aces on their overall win rate, but have too many expectations regarding the play of any given hand. whoever wrote that stuff is stupid.

TheGrifter · #7 10-04-2004, 02:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]
they don't get cracked half the time, they get cracked a little over 20% of the time. people UNDERESTIMATE the impact of aces on their overall win rate, but have too many expectations regarding the play of any given hand. whoever wrote that stuff is stupid.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually Astro, this is a rare instance in which you are wrong.

astroglide · #8 10-04-2004, 02:42 PM

how am i wrong?

TheGrifter · #9 10-04-2004, 02:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]
how am i wrong?

[/ QUOTE ]

The percentage of the time that AA will be cracked depends heavily on the characteristics of the game you are in, and no arbitrary fixed number can be ascribed to it.

astroglide · #10 10-04-2004, 02:53 PM

allow me to amend my statement to say that in virtually every limit in every cardroom, online or not your win rate with aces should approach the upper seventies. to prove it out for the original poster's quote (low limit holdem), ask the small stakes forum. i would predict that anybody with a decent sample size will have them winning a little under 80% of the time for a little under 3bb/hand.