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#1
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Are you guys in autobet mode if you raise pre flop?
While battling to improve my aggression(I'm weak tight [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] ) I find myself betting too much into flops that I shouldn't have just because I raised pre-flop. Here's an example:
Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (8 handed) converter Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. MP1 posts a blind of $0.5. <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP1 (poster) checks, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB completes, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, SB calls. Flop: (8 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font> SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, SB calls. So I decided to hit SSHE once again. In the section "Playing Overcards" p.221 Ed Miller gives very good guidelines for how to approach this situation. I'm not gonna go into the details here. But I'm just gonna give some reasons why I should not have bet the flop in the example given by following his guidelines. Even though the pot is somewhat big, a)our hand has no backdoor draws, b) the flop gives straight and flush possibities(two of our overcards put three to a flush), c) we're facing 3 opponents, d) we're out of position. We're drawing very slim. So, how likely is a bet here to win the pot immediatelly? Probably none. Will it improve our winning chances later on? Probably not. So, should I bet this pot? No. Should I call a bet? No. Does this make weak tight by not following on my pre-flop aggression? I'll let you guys decide this one. My main questions regarding all this are: how many of you guys just autobet the flop just because you raised pre-flop regardless of the flop? How many of you go thru all this thinking process? I'm just currious to hear your thoughts. |
#2
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Re: Are you guys in autobet mode if you raise pre flop?
No, I wouldn't bet this flop either. I'd call to see the turn depending on where the bet came from, how many folded before it got to me. If it was bet, fold, fold, I'd definitely call the flop for example.
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#3
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Re: Are you guys in autobet mode if you raise pre flop?
I'd probably bet it, but playing a lot of 6max lately is turning me into a LAG. Betting probably isn't best, but I don't think it's that bad here. With two callers, I'd give up on the turn UI, however.
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#4
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Re: Are you guys in autobet mode if you raise pre flop?
i'm trying to kick my autobet habit, but i don't know why betting this would be bad. no reason to think you're behind, but i think the turn is where things get interesting especially if it is a blank and you're checked to.
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#5
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Re: Are you guys in autobet mode if you raise pre flop?
I used to autobet flops when I raise preflop, I don't do it anymore. Now it depends on how many players there are, how ragged the board is, what position I'm in,pot size, How likely I am to win with a bet, How likely my hand is the best..etc. (I actually go through all this before I decide what to do)
I still bet the flops when I miss when it's wrong to though, I think playing overcards correctly is one of the hardest things to learn, and takes some time to perfect. |
#6
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consider your opponents.
And it also depends a lot on who you are up against.
If I'm at a tight table, e.g. Poker Room or Absolute, then this flop probably missed my opponents too and I can't give them a free card. If you're playing at party or another fish pond, then betting here would be a mistake because your opponents could have anything. Try to see the turn for one bet, and then you will likely have to fold UI. |
#7
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Re: Are you guys in autobet mode if you raise pre flop?
[ QUOTE ]
Should I call a bet? No. [/ QUOTE ] getting 8:1 you should at least see the turn with 2 overcards. |
#8
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Re: Are you guys in autobet mode if you raise pre flop?
[ QUOTE ]
getting 8:1 you should at least see the turn with 2 overcards. [/ QUOTE ] Let's follow the SSHE advice and say our overcards are worth 0.5 each since sometimes we still lose when we hit them. So we have about 3 outs > 14:1. However, two of them put three to a flush, so these two are worth even less plus it gives anyone with a club a redraw to a flush. I wouldn't count these two as outs since they're practically worthless. Add to all this that we're facing three opponents our overcards drop in value a bit more. So, we have more or less between 1.5-2 outs > 22:1. That's my reasoning here for not calling. Anyone with any comments on this is welcomed. |
#9
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Re: Are you guys in autobet mode if you raise pre flop?
I don't know if I would say that the two [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] overcards are practically worthless (3 to a flush on board doesn't mean someone made a flush) although I would discount them a little. I think when SSH discounts them to approximately 1.5 outs it's precisely because top pair doesn't always win. I think you can safely say they would be worth about 2.5 outs and with implied odds you might be able to call but you'd probably need about 11 or 12 to 1.
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#10
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Re: Are you guys in autobet mode if you raise pre flop?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] getting 8:1 you should at least see the turn with 2 overcards. [/ QUOTE ] Let's follow the SSHE advice and say our overcards are worth 0.5 each since sometimes we still lose when we hit them. So we have about 3 outs > 14:1. However, two of them put three to a flush, so these two are worth even less plus it gives anyone with a club a redraw to a flush. I wouldn't count these two as outs since they're practically worthless. Add to all this that we're facing three opponents our overcards drop in value a bit more. So, we have more or less between 1.5-2 outs > 22:1. That's my reasoning here for not calling. Anyone with any comments on this is welcomed. [/ QUOTE ] we counting outs if deciding whether to call or fold. not bet or check/call. Edit: i think the quote i used here was in response to a bet response, so it might be a bit out of context, but my statement is still true when considering what to do. my thinking: why check if we're going to call a bet, we're checked to, and it is possible that the flop missed everyone? why do we assume that just because there are 2 same suited cards, that the people in the hand are on a flush draw? why do our overcards lose value just because possible loose players call our bet? these seem assumptions to me that will 1) get you bluffed to fold easily 2) make you timid when playing 3) play contrary to the Theory of Poker: playing differently if you saw all the cards. |
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