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#1
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Proof that NotReady is wrong.
In the thread "MindBoggling" NotReady stated this:
[ QUOTE ] Purpose implies mind. No purpose implies no mind. No mind means irrational. If chance is ultimate, since chance is irrational, the universe has no ultimate purpose or meaning. [/ QUOTE ] This is his argument laid out minus all the fluff. This is his whole argument in its essence. "Purpose implies mind. No purpose implies no mind" commits the fallacy of 'negating the antecedent.' This is one of the first fallacies you learn about in any logic class, as it is one of the most basic. As his argument is based on a fallacy, his conclusion has absolutely no foundation in logic. This is extraordinarily ironic, considering a number of his claims. Oh yeah, he also tried to argue his way out of it being an actual fallacy. This either points to his intellectual dishonesty or a gigantic misunderstanding of logic. Read the thread to see how he talks his way out it. To anyone that has taken a number of logic classes (or even the first day of intro to logic) it's really intelligence-insulting. |
#2
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Re: Proof that NotReady is wrong.
[ QUOTE ]
"Purpose implies mind. No purpose implies no mind" commits the fallacy of 'negating the antecedent.' This is one of the first fallacies you learn about in any logic class, as it is one of the most basic. [/ QUOTE ] He didn't say that "no purpose implies no mind" follows from "purpose implies mind." I think they were both premises. |
#3
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Re: Proof that NotReady is wrong.
"He didn't say that "no purpose implies no mind" follows from "purpose implies mind." I think they were both premises."
That was his easy out. But for some reason he didn't take it. |
#4
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Re: Proof that NotReady is wrong.
[ QUOTE ]
That was his easy out. But for some reason he didn't take it. [/ QUOTE ] In one of my posts I said this: [ QUOTE ] It's circular because it's definitional. It's not a syllogism. Purpose, reason, will are all inherent parts of mind and can't exist without mind [/ QUOTE ] Tim didn't respond but went on about syllogisms. I've never had formal training in logic or read a book on it. I can't comprehend how someone can think there's no mind behind the universe but that the universe isn't irrational. Many very smart philosophers make this connection. I've never seen them try to put it into a syllogism. It's virtually self-evident. I think any syllogism I made would contain one or more premises that Tim would attack. So what's the point? He thinks a universe with no mind behind it can have purpose and be rational. That is the question, any premise would have to have something like that included or implied. I also posted a thread using his analogy, cold, snow, etc., to which he didn't respond. Snow can't exist without cold. I'm saying snow is to purpose as cold is to mind. Snow requires cold, purpose requires mind. Purpose can't exist without mind. It's definitional. If he defines purpose in a way that it can exist without mind then we are disagreeing on basic assumptions, whether or not I made a formal, logical presentation. |
#5
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Re: Proof that NotReady is wrong.
I haven't read your posts in much detail, but I would caution you to define precisely the terms Mind and Purpose, as your argument requires a very specific usage. You should also consider that the terms themselves repel a lot of people because they associate them with, in the first case, the Christian Science Movement and, in the second case, the Intelligent Design Movement. It is not clear to me whether or not you would want to distance yourself from these.
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#6
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Re: Proof that NotReady is wrong.
What cold signifies in your analogy is clear to me (a heat energy of 335 kj/kg). Mind and purpose are murky, though, because you seem incapable of talking about one without reference to the other. This is not entirely your fault, as it is a problem with the nature of language.
I have a hunch, however, that I would not be able to disentangle the concepts of Mind and God in your metaphysics. If this be the case, then your critics would be right to point out the circularity of your argument because you would essentially be arguing that the existence of Mind proves the existence of God. Keep in mind that I am only responding to what I've read in this thread; you may have addressed these issues elsewhere. |
#7
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Re: Proof that NotReady is wrong.
Am I the only one who thinks we need to lay off Not Ready? He's stated his position clearly, and he handles himself well in discussions.
I object to the recent crop of Not Ready-bashing threads. |
#8
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Re: Proof that NotReady is wrong.
Here. Here.
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#9
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Re: Proof that NotReady is wrong.
[ QUOTE ]
Am I the only one who thinks we need to lay off Not Ready? He's stated his position clearly, and he handles himself well in discussions. I object to the recent crop of Not Ready-bashing threads. [/ QUOTE ] No, you and I concur to this point. (Although if we get into details, I am sure NotReady and I will disagree. Let’s get over the big hurdle first.) |
#10
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Re: Proof that NotReady is wrong.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Am I the only one who thinks we need to lay off Not Ready? He's stated his position clearly, and he handles himself well in discussions. I object to the recent crop of Not Ready-bashing threads. [/ QUOTE ] No, you and I concur to this point. (Although if we get into details, I am sure NotReady and I will disagree. Let’s get over the big hurdle first.) [/ QUOTE ] I think he expresses himself clearly - but he is clearly wrong. Most of the posters here tend to disagree with his conclusions but not his right to state them. |
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