Why, oh why, are we still in Iraq?

ptmusic · #1 06-22-2005, 01:34 AM

Set aside the debate as to whether or not we had a valid reason to go to war in Iraq in the first place.

Set aside the debate as to whether what we've actually accomplished there is worthy of having gone to war in Iraq in the first place.

I'd like to hear valid reasons for STAYING there now.

Are we going to create permanent stability and democracy throughout the region?

Are we going to improve our relationships around the world by staying longer?

Are we going to save lives (American and non-American) by staying there longer?

Are we going to win the war on terror?

Are we going to keep the terrorists off our soil?

Assuming that someday we will eventually leave Iraq, will we look back and be glad we pulled out then as opposed to now? What will make some future day better than today to leave? And after that future day, will terrorists stay off our soil? How will we be better off than if we left today?

I'm sure those of you who believe we should stay there longer know my answers to these questions. But perhaps you have different answers. Or perhaps I'm not even asking the right questions.

Why are we still in Iraq?

-ptmusic

BCPVP · #2 06-22-2005, 01:50 AM

The Iraqis are not yet ready to take care of themselves.

ptmusic · #3 06-22-2005, 01:56 AM

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The Iraqis are not yet ready to take care of themselves.

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From an ethnocentric point of view.... so what? What does that have to do with us?

From a more compassionate point of view.... are you really convinced that they ever will be "ready"? How will we know? And more importantly, are you convinced that our staying there will insure their readiness?

-ptmusic

BCPVP · #4 06-22-2005, 03:34 AM

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From an ethnocentric point of view.... so what? What does that have to do with us?

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Well, wouldn't it be a waste of blood and treasure if we pull out before the Iraqis can handle themselves?

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From a more compassionate point of view.... are you really convinced that they ever will be "ready"? How will we know? And more importantly, are you convinced that our staying there will insure their readiness?

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1) Yes, there will be a point when they're "ready".
2) IMO, it would be when the Iraqis are able to repel several major terrorist attacks by themselves. I'm sure the military/political have a certain goal in mind, tho.
3) Not sure what you meant by your third question. Presently, I don't think the Iraqi military is quite ready to handle what will be thrown at it when the U.S. leaves, so a military presence is still needed. Hope that answers your questions.

ptmusic · #5 06-22-2005, 12:20 PM

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From an ethnocentric point of view.... so what? What does that have to do with us?

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Well, wouldn't it be a waste of blood and treasure if we pull out before the Iraqis can handle themselves?

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I don't really understand you here. What is this "treasure" you are talking about?

If it is our own security, that is not insured; a good argument could be made that our staying in Iraq is hurting our security.

If it is oil, that is unlikely to become a treasure for us.

If it is democracy in Iraq which somehow spreads throughout the Middle East so that the U.S. creates peace after thousands of years of warfare in the region, well that is an incredibly unlikely long-shot. I don't think we should waste any more blood for that incredible long-shot.

-ptmusic

BCPVP · #6 06-22-2005, 01:16 PM

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I don't really understand you here. What is this "treasure" you are talking about?

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Sorry, guess I was being a little too cute. Treasure = all the money we've spent thus far on Iraq (war+reconstruction). It'd be an incredible waste of money if we left and Iraq imploded on itself, wouldn't you agree?

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If it is our own security, that is not insured; a good argument could be made that our staying in Iraq is hurting our security.

If it is oil, that is unlikely to become a treasure for us.

If it is democracy in Iraq which somehow spreads throughout the Middle East so that the U.S. creates peace after thousands of years of warfare in the region, well that is an incredibly unlikely long-shot. I don't think we should waste any more blood for that incredible long-shot.

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None of these are reasons to stay, although some of them have happened as a result of our being there.

lehighguy · #7 06-22-2005, 03:35 AM

Can the Japanese form a functioning democracy?
If so, do they want to?
Will they ever be ready to take control?
Why is it our concern how they order ourselves with the war over?

Questions from 1945

Myrtle · #8 06-22-2005, 06:48 AM

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Can the Japanese form a functioning democracy?
If so, do they want to?
Will they ever be ready to take control?
Why is it our concern how they order ourselves with the war over?

Questions from 1945

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...interesting point.

How long did the U.S. maintain a military presence in Japan after WWII?

What was the nature of that presence?

When did the transition from occupying military force to supportive ally occur?

slamdunkpro · #9 06-22-2005, 09:02 AM

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How long did the U.S. maintain a military presence in Japan after WWII?

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In fact we still do to this day. But we "occupied" Japan for 9 years.

The once and future king · #10 06-22-2005, 06:55 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Can the Japanese form a functioning democracy?
If so, do they want to?
Will they ever be ready to take control?
Why is it our concern how they order ourselves with the war over?

Questions from 1945

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Utterly facile comparision. The differnaces between Japan 1945 and Iraq 2005 are to great and massive to even bother listing.