Party $400 PLO8 hand

[Wintermute]

$400 PL Omaha Hi/Lo
Seat 9 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 7: Hero ( $592.70 )
Seat 9: X ( $389.40 )
Seat 4: X ( $400.20 )
Seat 5: X ( $400 )
Seat 1: X ( $265.80 )
Seat 10: X ( $180.95 )
Seat 3: X ( $396 )
Seat 8: Villain ( $280 )
Seat 2: X ( $80 )
X posts small blind [$2].
X posts big blind [$4].
Villain posts big blind [$4].

** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero [ 9d Qs Qc Td ]

X folds.
X folds.
Hero calls [$4].
Villain raises [$11].
X folds.
X calls [$13].
X folds.
Hero calls [$11].

** Dealing Flop ** [ Kc, Jd, 7c ]

X checks.
Hero bets [$46.55].
Villain calls [$46.55].
X calls [$46.55].

** Dealing Turn ** [ 7d ]

X checks.
Hero bets [$90].
Villain calls [$90].
X folds.

** Dealing River ** [ 9s ]

Hero bets [$200].

[emptyshell]

I probably would have checked the turn. I'd be more likely to try this bluff heads up but with two people in, it's too likely someone likes the board pairing.

The river bet is OK since it puts the villain allin, and he might call with a 7. If he's aggressive, though, I think check/call would be better.

[BlueBear]

Weak-tight maybe, but I check/fold the turn here, especially in this multi-way situation. You'll get into a very tough spot if a player in later position calls you, regardless of what the river card may be. I don't really see the point of making a blocking bet at the river though because you're not going to get a better hand to fold and a worse hand will probably fold. Looks like more of a choice of check-calling/check-folding the river.

[Wintermute]

The river bet isn't a blocking bet--it's a value bet. I think the Villain definitely has a hand I beat but that he won't bluff into a board that he didn't raise on the turn.

The turn bet is suspect, I agree, but I think it's the amount that's wrong. I should have bet less, maybe half the pot instead of 80% or whatever it is. That would be a good spot for the blocking bet. I think if I check there I get taken off my hand.

[jthegreat]

You aren't worried about AA?

[Wintermute]

Worried? I'm hoping he calls w/ AA, and that's a likely hand for him to have played this way. (I have a straight, it seems like some people missed that)

[emptyshell]

Assuming he has AA, are you thinking that your turn bet priced you in to draw out, or was it purely a semibluff? I thought this was the issue the previous poster was raising, and it affects the size of the turn bet that makes the most sense. Personally, I think you are drawing to a Q far too often here, but it depends a lot on your opponents playing style.

[Wintermute]

Maybe it's just because semibluff/bluffs like this have been working out well in general lately, but I think they're good in the long run against typical high-limit players--of course in heads up many of the situations have to do with the way the game's been going, type of opponent and all that. But I suspect you have to make these plays to win convincingly at these levels, the opponents are just too good and not giving you an inch unless you steal it occasionally.


$2000 PL Omaha Hi/Lo
Villain ( $1846.50 )
Hero ( $2508.06 )
Villain posts small blind [$10].
Hero posts big blind [$20].

** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero [ 2c Kc 9h 5s ]

Villain raises [$50].
Hero calls [$40].

** Dealing Flop ** [ 8c, Qc, 7d ]

Villain checks.
Hero checks.

** Dealing Turn ** [ Jh ]

Villain bets [$119].
Hero calls [$119].

** Dealing River ** [ Kh ]

walt610 bets [$357].
Hero raises [$1000].
Villain folds.

Hero does not show cards.
Hero wins $1714



---------------------------------------------------------

$2000 PL Omaha Hi/Lo
Hero ( $1907.50 )
Villain ( $2069.50 )
Villain posts small blind [$10].
Hero posts big blind [$20].

** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero [ 2h 8h Ad Jc ]

Villain raises [$50].
Hero calls [$40].

** Dealing Flop ** [ 9s, 7c, Qh ]

Villain checks.
Hero checks.

** Dealing Turn ** [ 8d ]

Villain bets [$119].
Hero raises [$325].
Villain calls [$206].

** Dealing River ** [ 5s ]

Villain checks.
Hero bets [$769].
Villain folds.
Hero does not show cards.
Hero wins $1538

[emptyshell]

Well, head up is, of course, very different in terms of bluffing standards than a full ring game. The second hand, in particular, I would consider just part of the normal "ground game", where you're trying to pick up enough small pots to avoid getting grinded away while looking for a big score.

The first hand is fine, too, though for a different reason. The Villain's river bet smells a lot like a missed low draw and AT is a possible but unlikely combination considering the preflop and turn action. The only questionable part is flat calling the turn, but since it is so small in absolute dollars (relative to stack sizes), it's not worth that much analysis.

In general, these are not all that sophisticated or questionable, at least compared to the original hand you posted. (Assuming these are relatively "good" players.)

[Wintermute]

[ QUOTE ]
The first hand is fine, too, though for a different reason. The Villain's river bet smells a lot like a missed low draw and AT is a possible but unlikely combination considering the preflop and turn action. The only questionable part is flat calling the turn, but since it is so small in absolute dollars (relative to stack sizes), it's not worth that much analysis.


[/ QUOTE ]
The thing is, although the bet size relative to the stack size is not large, the absolute dollar amounts on these tables is a significant factor affecting play IMO. On a $200 table, this would be a $11.90 turn call and $100 river bluff. That's just not as likely to have an intimidating effect on a $200 stack as a $119 call and $1000 bluff are to have on a $2000 stack, for many (but not all) players. This is certainly debatable, just my observations based on my own experience and the fact that the game is much more bluffable.

What I'm getting at is that the turn call is the most aggressive part of the hand IMO. Raising on the turn is OK, but I open myself up to the same bluff I ran on the river if I don't pick the pot up there or catch on the river, and I have to worry about better low drawing, catching, and pushing me off junk high that might be good. Folding isn't really an option, my hand is too good to fold there. Calling is best IMO because I'm setting up a big river bet in many more circumstances.

[ QUOTE ]

In general, these are not all that sophisticated or questionable, at least compared to the original hand you posted. (Assuming these are relatively "good" players.)

[/ QUOTE ]
Hm. That's weird, I was thinking the first hand I was mainly betting for value the whole way (with bluff possibility if I miss the river), these last two I feel like I either outplayed the guy (both hands) or maybe just got real lucky (2nd hand).