Stud8 - The FBI (Full Bring In)

[Aaron W.]

I must admit that I never do this. I don't even think about doing it. I don't see it done very often, either. Obviously, I'm missing out on some strategic advantages by limiting my options.

- Am I missing out on a big thing or a small thing?
- How often do you do this?
- What are some favorable situations for using the full bring-in?
- Is it safe to just think of it as raising in early position?

[mscags]

Usually the only times Ill do it is if I feel that I have a good chance of stealing the antes (bunch of non threatening cards and I have something really small like a 2,3,4) or if I have a strong hand and I think that there is a good chance that everyone else has hands that they are willing to pay a full bet for (lots of low cards out etc)

Mike

[benwood]

I do this any time that I feel that my hand will play better against a small field & that my hand is strong enough to commit this much.Same as completing in early position after the bring-in.

[imported_getfunky]

Since I play 5/10 and lower, a complete bet usually doesn't discourage callers who would have limped. I rarely do it because it gives me more options. For example, if I have kings in the hole, I can fold the hand if 3 or 4 low cards show strength or an ace raises.

I personally use it in only three circumstances:
I represent that I'm steaming when I've taken a rough beat or beats and have a very nice hand, in which case I will cap it. I also might use it if I have a thief with an ace on my immediate right, the board appears otherwise weak, and my hand is pretty good. Lastly in shorthanded situations if I have a big pair or believe I can steal.

A side note, I once saw a player do it with three ducks and get action - what a deceptive play! I personally don't have the balls to do that. What about tournament situations? Could anybody tell me how FBI strategy would differ.

I do this constantly in the $10/20 Stud 8/b game now. Why, you ask? Because people are so stupid and don't realize that they are paying for a full bet, and come with eight-low razz hands and pairs of tens all day long anyway.

Works pretty well. Also, it gets the 2+2'ers and proficient players to fold their marginal but good hands.

It seems to me that when you regularly FBI it leaves you too open to steal attempts those times that you dont FBI. Id rather disguise my hand than get that extra part of a bet in.

[goofball]

When I play Stud8 it's usually live and I'll frequently bring it in without looking at my other two cards. Is there any merit to doing this? I hadn't really thought about it and it was working well for me.

[benwood]

I noticed that several posts said that it may reveal the nature of your hand by constantly coming in for the full amount, & some said they throw in a chip without looking.Making blind bets certainly keep you from giving away the nature of your hand since you don't know yourself what you have.But you also give up an opportunity to make a decision,& good decision making(hopefully) is where we make our money.I play for about 3 hours almost every day in a 20/40 stud hi/lo. The bring-in is $5 or the full bet is $20 instead.I find that this decision can affect the outcome of the hand greatly,& I would not want to forgo the opportunity to make this decision,myself.

[ QUOTE ]
The bring-in is $5 or the full bet is $20 instead.I find that this decision can affect the outcome of the hand greatly,& I would not want to forgo the opportunity to make this decision,myself.

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So what are your requirements for making the $20 bet or the $5 bet?

The problem as I see it is if you make the full bet with your good hands and you make the bring-in bet with your weaker hands you have given a complete outline of the strength of your hand. In order to negate this you need to occasionally make the full bet with a weak hand, and at a full stud-8 table that is akin to burning money.

I also find it hard to imagine a hand so strong that it is worth an open raise into the entire field, since a hand that is that strong wants weak action anyway. If you open for the full bet and get heads up you are up against a hand that would most likely have completed the bring in for you.

Although ante stealing isn't as important in stud-8 as it is in stud it is still a factor especially in bigger games. If you are a player that sometimes makes full bring-ins your min. bring in becomes easily stealable. If however you are a blind bring-in player others will be more wary of trying to steal. After the first time you bring it in, get one late position player to complete on a steal and the you come back with a reraise. They are going to be hard pressed to try to steal your bring-in without a real hand anymore.

[benwood]

BKyef.Sorry to take so long responding to your valid point& question.
Quote:"What are your requirements for making the $20 bet & $5 bet?""The problem,as I see it is,if you make the full bet with your good hands& the bring-in bet with your weaker hands,you have given a complete outline of the strength of your hand."
Actually,I find that this does not cause me to reveal my hand strength,since you can opt to use either the BI or the FBI with a variety of hands,depending on the situation.
(1)A good hand that plays very well in a multy-way pot but also does fine in a little more narrow field.IEAh,5h)2C.With this monster,I tend to use the BI much more than the FBI because I don't want to narrow the field.Of course,I'm hoping for a raise so I can get in a re-raise.However,if the field is loose & aggressive,so that I can use the FBI without narrowing the field,I will occasionally do so, gladly.
(2)Small roll-up:This is a great hand to come in with either a BI or FBI as you see fit.
(3)Big or medium pairs in the hole:These are hands that prefer a small field,of course.You can use the BI & FBI interchangeably with these hands.You look at the number of players,tightness of the game,& size of the pair,& make a judgement based on a combination of these 3 factors.
(4)Steals:The FBI can sometimes be used here too,based on the same factors as in #3 above.
I hope this is helpful & will generate some more discussion on this interesting subject.Believe me,I do not consider myself to be any kind of authority,by any means,& I would like to learn more about this if I can. Good luck to you. Ben